v Hunslet home 2/4/17 3pm : Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:29 pm  

Forget the cup match , back to the league v the team from South Leeds .
Jordie serving the last game of his suspension . No news yet of players returning to fitness .
Looking forward to the game the first of the important games in April .

COYD

Re: v Hunslet home 2/4/17 3pm : Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:08 pm  

Let's hope it's not one of GT's famous 'wake up calls'.
Third vs fourth ... neither side has a victory over anyone who will get promotion, so ignore league positions.
Dons to win convincingly, if they sort out their slackness near their own line.
COYD

Re: v Hunslet home 2/4/17 3pm : Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:02 pm  

There are a few interesting form lines involving teams in our league. With so few games played the league table isn't really telling us too much at the moment.

My instincts are telling me Barrow and Toronto are the two main players but is this a misconception? And where do we fit in in the pecking order?

We all know about Toronto but how have Barrow been playing? Barrow 28-0 York; Coventry 14-50 Barrow; Barrow 82-0 Hemel; Barrow 20-0 Keighley. They've scored 180 and conceded 14. It's the fact that they've only conceded 14 points and nilled three teams that impresses me most. This looks like the form of a side that's got a very serious chance of finishing in the top two.

Our form lines: Dons 48-22 Gloucester. How have the other teams done against Gloucester?

Workington 54-22 Gloucester. Taking that one literally probably means there's not much to choose between us and Workington. How good are Workington?

Workington have played Newcastle twice: Newcastle 18-16 Workington; Workington 20-24 Newcastle. In their other game: Oxford 6-20 Workington. This implies that Newcastle may be a couple of points better than Workington.

Does this suggest the Dons, Newcastle, and Workington may be of similar ability?

Where do Hunslet fit in? Hunslet 10-6 Gloucester. On the back of this score, it appears we should be around 22 points better than Hunslet. Hemel 10-Hunslet 58. Hunslet may be 48 points better than Hemel. On the Hemel form line we get a link back to Barrow: Barrow were 82 points better than Hemel. This gives more evidence to suggest Barrow look superior to the rest. Hunslet have also beaten Coventry 34-0. Bear (no pun intended!) in mind that we only beat Coventry 26-4.

There is one final piece of evidence that may also suggest Hunslet have limitations. In the iPro Cup: Hunslet 10-Newcastle 34.

My conclusions: If we want to lay down a marker to suggest we're better than Newcastle and Workington, we need to win by more than 30 points. If we're actually of similar ability to Newcastle and Workington, we should win by between 24 to 30 points. If we win by fewer than 24 points, it probably suggests we're not as good as Newcastle and Workington.

Re: v Hunslet home 2/4/17 3pm : Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:21 pm  

Score a good few points and don't concede many and for the love of himself do not have an eye of the following weeks game.

DM I fully respect your final conclusions and given the past results they are the right ones to draw upon, but I do expect the Hawks to raise their game at the Keepmoat so if we don't outscore them to the degree you say does that follow we are not as good as the two clubs you compare us with? Hard one and it does IMO come down to - you can only beat whats in front of you.

Of course losing on Sunday would open up a complete can of worms

Re: v Hunslet home 2/4/17 3pm : Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:44 pm  

Moonshine wrote:

Score a good few points and don't concede many and for the love of himself do not have an eye of the following weeks game.

DM I fully respect your final conclusions and given the past results they are the right ones to draw upon, but I do expect the Hawks to raise their game at the Keepmoat so if we don't outscore them to the degree you say does that follow we are not as good as the two clubs you compare us with? Hard one and it does IMO come down to - you can only beat whats in front of you.

Of course losing on Sunday would open up a complete can of worms

Nothing's ever conclusive in sport. The best we get are indicators. Some days things just don't work out and other days things go very well. Every side's entitled to a bad day and that doesn't necessarily make a side a bad team.

Looking at the collateral form lines though, there does seem to be a relatively consistent story being told.

I understand what you're saying about only being able to beat what's in front of you but I wouldn't be very happy if we only beat Hemel Stags 1-0 even though we'd got two points. It would clearly be telling us something about the relative abilities of the two sides. As a coach I would set my team a target to let them know that I don't just expect them to win against the lesser sides, I'd tell them what an acceptable scoreline is. In some games winning by any margin is a good result (such as going to Barrow, for example). Winning well breeds confidence too which is also why it's important to win by wider margins.

In a football match a 1-0 win against a bottom side is probably still a decent result but there is much more luck involved in the outcome of a football match compared to rugby. In rugby the points difference in matches does tend to tell a more truthful story about the relative abilities of the teams.

So, if we were to lose on Sunday, it wouldn't mean we couldn't go up, it wouldn't necessarily make us a bad team but it would leave us with a lot more to prove in the forthcoming games. You can only under-perform so many times before the lower level of performance is actually indicative of your true ability.

I won't be slashing my wrists if we lose to Hunslet but I'll be disappointed. I think we will win. I hope we'll win by a good few points to give the players, fans and the club a greater belief that we are good enough to go up.

Re: v Hunslet home 2/4/17 3pm : Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:39 am  

From the Free Press today http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/spo ... -1-8463030 The next three games should provide answers to the well thought out views by DM on this thread.

From the Free Press today http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/spo ... -1-8463030 The next three games should provide answers to the well thought out views by DM on this thread.

Re: v Hunslet home 2/4/17 3pm : Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:58 am  

I agree with Gary Thornton's views that it is becoming increasingly difficult to get out of this league. Having Toulouse in the league last season and Toronto in the league this season means the rest of us are playing for one promotion place only. It immediately becomes much more difficult to go up on this basis alone.

The newer clubs are probably getting better too which is the other point GT was referring to. Even so, without being disrespectful to the lesser lights, none of the following are likely to be pressing for promotion and form the second tier of the division: Hemel Stags, Coventry, South Wales, North Wales, London Skolars, Gloucester and Oxford. The class gap between top and bottom clearly exists as the Barrow 82-0 Hemel Stags results confirms.

Excluding those seven teams, it leaves nine other teams fighting for two promotion places, or eight teams fighting for one promotion place if we assume Toronto are certainties to go up.

The challenge for the Dons is to prove we are up there with the likes of Toronto and Barrow. To do that we've got to be considerably better than Workington, Newcastle, Keighley, Hunslet, Whitehaven and York. Let's hope we can take the first steps towards proving that we are on Sunday!

Re: v Hunslet home 2/4/17 3pm : Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:29 am  

We have to win all three of these next three games.
You can argue that it is OK to lose to Toronto, because everyone else will, but that would be a silly way to look at it for a couple of reasons.

Let me tell you the main reason .... Doncaster's, and anyone else's for that matter, best chance of going up is by winning the league. That must mean winning all the games before the stupid eights or whatever the last additional seven games are called.
We play Toronto once at home before that, we have to beat them to take it out of their hands, otherwise it is the playoffs and I do NOT fancy our chances there.
I know we have to play in thoses games but we have to be placed in number one position when we do to finish first IMHO.

We musn't think we can lose to Toronto and it be OK .... that is our cup game, not the Leeds one.

We are at Leeds for a good time, if we score a try it's a bonus.

Re: v Hunslet home 2/4/17 3pm : Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:57 pm  

Stand-Offish wrote:

We have to win all three of these next three games.
You can argue that it is OK to lose to Toronto, because everyone else will, but that would be a silly way to look at it for a couple of reasons.

Let me tell you the main reason .... Doncaster's, and anyone else's for that matter, best chance of going up is by winning the league. That must mean winning all the games before the stupid eights or whatever the last additional seven games are called.
We play Toronto once at home before that, we have to beat them to take it out of their hands, otherwise it is the playoffs and I do NOT fancy our chances there.
I know we have to play in thoses games but we have to be placed in number one position when we do to finish first IMHO.

We musn't think we can lose to Toronto and it be OK .... that is our cup game, not the Leeds one.

We are at Leeds for a good time, if we score a try it's a bonus.

Can't argue with that and to reinforce the Toronto game the players (cliche alert) need to put their hands up this weekend.

Re: v Hunslet home 2/4/17 3pm : Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:08 pm  

I agree with S/O and Moonshine - the Toronto game gives us the opportunity to keep things in our own hands.

Out of interest, Barrow are away to Toronto on 20th May.

As things stand at the moment, I don't think we're as good as Barrow and Toronto so unless we improve quite considerably I think our best chance of getting promoted is through the play-offs - but a lot can change between now and the end of the season.

Our job is to keep winning, and keep winning well as points difference could matter.