Re: Saints @ Home : Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:46 pm  

Hessle Roader wrote:

Not forgetting, of course, the large number of senior players who are injured.

He's referring to our style of play which ordinarily never changes rather than the quality of player.

5 drives and a kick tiring the forwards out. Slow ptb allowing the defence to restrict our movement and our normally static defensive line waiting for the opposition to come to us.
That has nothing to do with injuries but rather our structures.

Re: Saints @ Home : Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:56 am  

Hessle Roader wrote:

Not forgetting, of course, the large number of senior players who are injured.

Surely you can see what bonaire is getting at. Yes you have had injuries like most teams. Injuries are not necessarily instrumental in how a team plays.

Re: Saints @ Home : Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:28 am  

Keiththered wrote:

Surely you can see what bonaire is getting at. Yes you have had injuries like most teams. Injuries are not necessarily instrumental in how a team plays.

it is when your number 1 half is sat in the stand!

Re: Saints @ Home : Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:49 am  

with 7/8 players sat in the stand, 2/3 not fully fit, loads of young kids in, abdull first match back after broken leg, how the heck do you want us to play, if it was that easy great but it isn't, I expect us to play the game with plenty of effort and guts and play to the best of our ability, with everything thrown at us I think that's what we did, I really don't know what some expect, to be 5th with all the injuries we have had is pretty good imo,

Re: Saints @ Home : Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:18 am  

hull2524 wrote:

with 7/8 players sat in the stand, 2/3 not fully fit, loads of young kids in, abdull first match back after broken leg, how the heck do you want us to play, if it was that easy great but it isn't, I expect us to play the game with plenty of effort and guts and play to the best of our ability, with everything thrown at us I think that's what we did, I really don't know what some expect, to be 5th with all the injuries we have had is pretty good imo,

Exactly hull2524, when you look objectively at any sport, to give your all, as a team pushing every sinew till you drop at the end, you can do no more, our team did this, and as another poster alluded to, I was obliged to applaud our boys at the end after the hooter had gone.

Re: Saints @ Home : Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:32 am  

hull2524 wrote:

with 7/8 players sat in the stand, 2/3 not fully fit, loads of young kids in, abdull first match back after broken leg, how the heck do you want us to play, if it was that easy great but it isn't, I expect us to play the game with plenty of effort and guts and play to the best of our ability, with everything thrown at us I think that's what we did, I really don't know what some expect, to be 5th with all the injuries we have had is pretty good imo,

According to a post earlier in this thread you had: Shaul (Barba), Talanoa (Swift), Griffin (Morgan), Sneyd (Richardson), Bowden (Douglas), Manu (Peyroux) and Westerman (Wilkin) out. Saints equivalents are in brackets (some are debatable the Smith/ Richardson one in particular but it is easily replaced). Would give a team of:

Lomax
Makinson Costello Percival Grace
Fages Smith
Walmsley Roby Thompson
Taia Knowles
LMS

ASmith Ashworth Amor Lees

Though more likely we would see Bentley and Brown in there somewhere too (though I’ve not given any debuts in the team above). To me that looks like a team capable of playing the way we do now? Perhaps not as effectively, and the bench doesn’t pack as much of a punch (I think we would rapidly make sure we only have Thompson and Walmlsey on at the same time in emergencies), but the structures would be in place.

Structures at Saints (and Wigan, don’t know about elsewhere) are enforced throughout the age groups, so bringing in young players should never impact the way we play.

Re: Saints @ Home : Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:55 am  

trouble is apart from barba most of our players out are better or more important to us imo, plus it looks like you maybe have a stronger squad, you play a different game to us, we have mostly played a power game rightly or wrongly with a team sprinkled with flair, its done us well the last two years but again for US these injuries have hit us hard, remember we hadn't done well for years then the last 2 have been good, get our full team or most of them on the pitch and we wont be far off, maybe to late this year but you never know,

Re: Saints @ Home : Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:57 am  

Fair enough Mr Beetle, and then lose one of your starting front rowers and Percival in the first half. Perhaps not quite as good then?

[Mild Rover]

Re: Saints @ Home : Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:04 pm  

Bombed Out wrote:

He's referring to our style of play which ordinarily never changes rather than the quality of player.

5 drives and a kick tiring the forwards out. Slow ptb allowing the defence to restrict our movement and our normally static defensive line waiting for the opposition to come to us.
That has nothing to do with injuries but rather our structures.

But I don’t think things like a slow ptb (apart from when trying to win a penalty) and a static defensive line is part of your structure.

I think they’re more reflections of performance, which is to some extent down to injuries. For example, a less experienced or able player is probably less likely to win the collision, meaning no quick ptb in attack, or allowing the opposition one while your defensive is still retreating the 10.

More individual errors typically lead to more fatigue for the team as whole, as well.

Re: Saints @ Home : Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:41 pm  

hull2524 wrote:

trouble is apart from barba most of our players out are better or more important to us imo, plus it looks like you maybe have a stronger squad, you play a different game to us, we have mostly played a power game rightly or wrongly with a team sprinkled with flair, its done us well the last two years but again for US these injuries have hit us hard, remember we hadn't done well for years then the last 2 have been good, get our full team or most of them on the pitch and we wont be far off, maybe to late this year but you never know,

But that’s my point? Whether it’s Barba, Lomax & Richardson or Makinson, Fages and Smith, or Costello, Lewis and Fairclough, Saints are able to play within their structure to the benefit of the team. This means that even though the first choice are better players, they’re not any more or less important to our chances than anyone else.

Hull are trying to replicate the early 2000’s Bradford sides and there’s nothing wrong with that, but if you have single players who that style depends on, then you have to look at how the squad is constructed.

After KC used to tell us how the full first team bar Smith would be fine despite losing to Leigh - Saints fans tolerance to that kind of dependency is pretty low.