Re: Return of the Hull derbies : Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:25 pm  

rover 2000 wrote:

whats your evidence?

HDM October 1999

"Barry Lilley the Hull KR Chairman made a short statement about the situation to the Hull Daily Mail after the meeting and said, “There is no way that they (Hull FC) will be allowed to take a place in the Premiership and Hull KR will be the only Club in Hull with their own identity”.

Re: Return of the Hull derbies : Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:51 pm  

The Dentist Wilf wrote:

HDM October 1999

"Barry Lilley the Hull KR Chairman made a short statement about the situation to the Hull Daily Mail after the meeting and said, “There is no way that they (Hull FC) will be allowed to take a place in the Premiership and Hull KR will be the only Club in Hull with their own identity”.

Well Bazza old bean, that went well didn't it!!

Re: Return of the Hull derbies : Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:07 pm  

The attendance figures are interesting. Both teams have seen an average increase, probably neither expected to in the circumstances.

Re: Return of the Hull derbies : Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:24 pm  

Who are these rovers that you all speak of? I don't pay much heed to the lower leagues, are they as good Coventry bears?

Re: Return of the Hull derbies : Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:46 pm  

I started watching Hull when the Derby was the focal point of the season as we and rovers were the top teams at the time.

In the SL years the Derby is anticipated only by the underdog side. They are a nerve shredder of a game as they are awful to lose. A close derby win is fantastic (2010, Briscoe last play tackle. 2013, Greens "legal" try. 20 nil down and still..... You get the picture)

If I am honest, they only thing I want a derby for is to see Hull completely destroy rovers, pretty much as we have since magic 2015.

Re: Return of the Hull derbies : Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:04 pm  

Mrs Barista wrote:

The attendance figures are interesting. Both teams have seen an average increase, probably neither expected to in the circumstances.

I think Hull's increase is down to,
1. Winning last season's Challenge Cup at Wembley
2. Having a very good, established and settled squad and Club
3. More tolerance to a downturn in performances/defeat
4. Confidence in our ability to finally compete at the business end of the season

If Rovers had been the SL this season our average would have been higher by another 200-300.

Re: Return of the Hull derbies : Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:18 pm  

Sheldon wrote: No they don't, they need SL. I'd guess that they've brought far more to our ground than we have to there's since DL began. Not exactly my point - I think that our current need for the derby rivalry in Super League in terms of a) financial requirements, b) the motivation factor and c) publicising the club and the game in Hull and beyond, is much lower than it was prior to when they were last in Super League. We are growing our attendances, as highlighted earlier in the thread, as a result of improved performances, success in the cup and a much better league positions (and consistency) along with a very good marketing and community engagement department. Financially, the improved attendances plus prize money from the cup (and going far in the Super 8s) has nullified the extra income from the derby. And also, being the (much) bigger and more successful of the two teams in the city, we stand up without needing the derby to assist with the promotion of the club. Rovers, I'd argue, have much more to gain from the derby than we would, and their involvement in Super League and the return of 2/3 derby games would prove this. They are a club with a lower financial income than us, so need the increase in gate receipts more than we do. We've seen on a number of occasions across recent years how they enjoy the rivalry and use it to whip the team and fans up, and aim to build momentum. And as the lesser side in the city, as has been the case with inter-city derbies across sport, the smaller of the two clubs usually benefits from being in the same league as their larger rivals, through increased appeal from fans and neutrals wanting to savour the atmosphere of a same-city rivalry. This article helps to sum it up quite well: http://haas.berkeley.edu/faculty/papers/stawrivalry.pdf - I'm not saying that we wouldn't benefit from the derby returning; only that, for Rovers, their need for the derby far outweighs ours, both as a club and as a fanbase.

Sheldon wrote: No they don't, they need SL. I'd guess that they've brought far more to our ground than we have to there's since DL began. Not exactly my point - I think that our current need for the derby rivalry in Super League in terms of a) financial requirements, b) the motivation factor and c) publicising the club and the game in Hull and beyond, is much lower than it was prior to when they were last in Super League. We are growing our attendances, as highlighted earlier in the thread, as a result of improved performances, success in the cup and a much better league positions (and consistency) along with a very good marketing and community engagement department. Financially, the improved attendances plus prize money from the cup (and going far in the Super 8s) has nullified the extra income from the derby. And also, being the (much) bigger and more successful of the two teams in the city, we stand up without needing the derby to assist with the promotion of the club. Rovers, I'd argue, have much more to gain from the derby than we would, and their involvement in Super League and the return of 2/3 derby games would prove this. They are a club with a lower financial income than us, so need the increase in gate receipts more than we do. We've seen on a number of occasions across recent years how they enjoy the rivalry and use it to whip the team and fans up, and aim to build momentum. And as the lesser side in the city, as has been the case with inter-city derbies across sport, the smaller of the two clubs usually benefits from being in the same league as their larger rivals, through increased appeal from fans and neutrals wanting to savour the atmosphere of a same-city rivalry. This article helps to sum it up quite well: http://haas.berkeley.edu/faculty/papers/stawrivalry.pdf - I'm not saying that we wouldn't benefit from the derby returning; only that, for Rovers, their need for the derby far outweighs ours, both as a club and as a fanbase.

Re: Return of the Hull derbies : Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:41 am  

Cardiff_05 wrote: Not exactly my point - I think that our current need for the derby rivalry in Super League in terms of a) financial requirements, b) the motivation factor and c) publicising the club and the game in Hull and beyond, is much lower than it was prior to when they were last in Super League. We are growing our attendances, as highlighted earlier in the thread, as a result of improved performances, success in the cup and a much better league positions (and consistency) along with a very good marketing and community engagement department. Financially, the improved attendances plus prize money from the cup (and going far in the Super 8s) has nullified the extra income from the derby. And also, being the (much) bigger and more successful of the two teams in the city, we stand up without needing the derby to assist with the promotion of the club. Rovers, I'd argue, have much more to gain from the derby than we would, and their involvement in Super League and the return of 2/3 derby games would prove this. They are a club with a lower financial income than us, so need the increase in gate receipts more than we do. We've seen on a number of occasions across recent years how they enjoy the rivalry and use it to whip the team and fans up, and aim to build momentum. And as the lesser side in the city, as has been the case with inter-city derbies across sport, the smaller of the two clubs usually benefits from being in the same league as their larger rivals, through increased appeal from fans and neutrals wanting to savour the atmosphere of a same-city rivalry. This article helps to sum it up quite well: http://haas.berkeley.edu/faculty/papers/stawrivalry.pdf - I'm not saying that we wouldn't benefit from the derby returning; only that, for Rovers, their need for the derby far outweighs ours, both as a club and as a fanbase. I put some very basic sums together a few weeks ago on the Rovers board following a claim by a Rovers fan that we're missing out on a bumper pay day by not having them in SL. When pointing out that the last Derby didn't attract a great deal of fans, the free juniors/% of away ticket deals, our awful deal with the SMC, no takings from food/drink outlets - the actual incremental profit from Rovers home game compared to the Leigh home game is around £70k. Away fans are a bonus of course, but it's not particularly lucrative for us as a club. That's why our games are on a Friday night and not a Sunday afternoon. Maybe it's a coincidence that our best years in SL have been when Rovers haven't been in SL with us. 2005-06, 2016-17? Ultimately, a prolonged period as Hull's only SL club would give us the pick of the bulk of corporates, sponsors, new fans, media attention, youngsters (if we had our own academy, but that's another story). For us fans it certainly makes the season more interesting having them in SL, even if the derby was over-played, and they certainly bring more to SL than a few other current SL clubs.

Cardiff_05 wrote: Not exactly my point - I think that our current need for the derby rivalry in Super League in terms of a) financial requirements, b) the motivation factor and c) publicising the club and the game in Hull and beyond, is much lower than it was prior to when they were last in Super League. We are growing our attendances, as highlighted earlier in the thread, as a result of improved performances, success in the cup and a much better league positions (and consistency) along with a very good marketing and community engagement department. Financially, the improved attendances plus prize money from the cup (and going far in the Super 8s) has nullified the extra income from the derby. And also, being the (much) bigger and more successful of the two teams in the city, we stand up without needing the derby to assist with the promotion of the club. Rovers, I'd argue, have much more to gain from the derby than we would, and their involvement in Super League and the return of 2/3 derby games would prove this. They are a club with a lower financial income than us, so need the increase in gate receipts more than we do. We've seen on a number of occasions across recent years how they enjoy the rivalry and use it to whip the team and fans up, and aim to build momentum. And as the lesser side in the city, as has been the case with inter-city derbies across sport, the smaller of the two clubs usually benefits from being in the same league as their larger rivals, through increased appeal from fans and neutrals wanting to savour the atmosphere of a same-city rivalry. This article helps to sum it up quite well: http://haas.berkeley.edu/faculty/papers/stawrivalry.pdf - I'm not saying that we wouldn't benefit from the derby returning; only that, for Rovers, their need for the derby far outweighs ours, both as a club and as a fanbase. I put some very basic sums together a few weeks ago on the Rovers board following a claim by a Rovers fan that we're missing out on a bumper pay day by not having them in SL. When pointing out that the last Derby didn't attract a great deal of fans, the free juniors/% of away ticket deals, our awful deal with the SMC, no takings from food/drink outlets - the actual incremental profit from Rovers home game compared to the Leigh home game is around £70k. Away fans are a bonus of course, but it's not particularly lucrative for us as a club. That's why our games are on a Friday night and not a Sunday afternoon. Maybe it's a coincidence that our best years in SL have been when Rovers haven't been in SL with us. 2005-06, 2016-17? Ultimately, a prolonged period as Hull's only SL club would give us the pick of the bulk of corporates, sponsors, new fans, media attention, youngsters (if we had our own academy, but that's another story). For us fans it certainly makes the season more interesting having them in SL, even if the derby was over-played, and they certainly bring more to SL than a few other current SL clubs.

Re: Return of the Hull derbies : Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:39 am  

Derbies were worthwhile when they weren't ten a penny. If it was two per season one home and one away it would be good to see them back although I'm not fussed which league KR play in I've no interest. Their appeal in recent years has been heavily watered down.

Re: Return of the Hull derbies : Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:09 pm  

I hope KR come back up.