Re: Six signed up, Reece Dean to leave : Tue May 31, 2016 8:49 pm  

Hope Dean and HTW will make top players, however as yet neither has made any contribution to the first team whatsoever (barring one brief sub app for HTW in 2014).

For me in such circumstances the club should be paying them a basic living wage while investing heavily in their development through the best training, coaching, advice etc, so giving them the best possible chance of achieving their potential.

As far as I know this is what Wigan have been doing for ages, producing far more talent for themselves and others (Widnes!) than any other club has done.

Surely as a young aspiring player you want the best inputs into your development, not a few extra grand a year. The financial rewards will come once/if you make it as a regular first grader or better, as that is when you have started to generate some value for your club.

If a player who is yet to play first grade thinks he will get better investment in his development elsewhere then fair enough, but if his first priority is the best financial offer then long term we're better off without him, just like we're better off without Westerman and Lineham...

Re: Six signed up, Reece Dean to leave : Tue May 31, 2016 8:50 pm  

FC-Steward wrote:

I agree after all the time we've spent on them , but if we start paying them more it will only cause problems further down the line . Hopefully one of them will stay , seems to me like Reece is just going were the money is which I think is wrong at his age , but if it suits him .. I wonder if the reason either of them hasn't played first team yet is just down to radders thinking there not ready yet or that if they had , there contracts would be worth more to them .

I'm not sure that paying a better prospect a bit more will cause any problems further down the line other than having to maybe shell out more in the long run for a player developed by another club if you let your own go. Sticking rigidly to a wage structure seems too inflexible to me and you need to be recognising talent - I'm not saying this isn't being done as I don't have enough knowledge of the club's wage structure to know.

We're not talking vast sums of money here, a couple of grand or so a year is pretty inconsequential.

Now it may be that the club just don't rate the players in question that highly in which case it's fair enough

Re: Six signed up, Reece Dean to leave : Tue May 31, 2016 8:55 pm  

ComeOnYouUll wrote:

A shame that this thread seems to have been dominated by the news that Dean is leaving rather than that Turgut, Litten, Fash, Downs, Matongo and Osborne are signed up.

A great point.
The young players that have signed up have shown their commitment to the black and white . Hopefully they can develop together into the first team. If they have all come through the system together, it can only help the team spirit in the future.

Re: Six signed up, Reece Dean to leave : Tue May 31, 2016 9:00 pm  

Jake the Peg wrote:

Sticking rigidly to a wage structure seems too inflexible to me and you need to be recognising talent - I'm not saying this isn't being done

To be fair it is being done, last year Jack Logan got an upgraded 4 year deal after making a real impact on the first team over at least a dozen matches.

I'm sure Dean and HTW would get the same once they've demonstrated they have what it takes, but in the meantime don't see why they should be different to Matongo or Jansin Turgut (GB academy captain) who have readily agreed to stay at the club.

Re: Six signed up, Reece Dean to leave : Tue May 31, 2016 9:09 pm  

handbrake wrote:

To be fair it is being done, last year Jack Logan got an upgraded 4 year deal after making a real impact on the first team over at least a dozen matches.

I'm sure Dean and HTW would get the same once they've demonstrated they have what it takes, but in the meantime don't see why they should be different to Matongo or Jansin Turgut (GB academy captain) who have readily agreed to stay at the club.

They shouldn't be any different, but it sounds like they were treated differently in the past with decent deals for the level they were at.

For lads at their age taking a pay cut must be difficult to take, and as much as it probably shouldn't be, it'll probably be a factor in their decision.

Dean will have his reasons, we don't know whether it is down to money or whether he see's a better opportunity for himself at Rovers (or whoever he ends up at) to develop & play 1st team rugby. We shouldn't hold that against him, good luck to him. Time will tell if he's a Luke Briscoe or a Josh Hodgson.

Re: Six signed up, Reece Dean to leave : Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:38 pm  

Apparently Dean has had offers from Rovers, the new Canada venture and the Australian second grade ......Personally, if I were Dean, I would spend a couple of years playing under the Australian tutelage as the Australian set up is more likely to progress his game and his discipline and professionalism as a professional rugby league player .......Experiencing the NRL coaching techniques and culture whilst he physically and mentally matures will make him a better player when he eventually reaches his prime, much more than signing for Rovers or Toronto will ever do!

Re: Six signed up, Reece Dean to leave : Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:21 pm  

ComeOnYouUll wrote:

A shame that this thread seems to have been dominated by the news that Dean is leaving rather than that Turgut, Litten, Fash, Downs, Matongo and Osborne are signed up.

That's because out of all the players you have mentioned, Reece Dean seems to be the most talented within their respected positions.

But, as the salary cap issue has finally been brought to the forth (regarding how the top Super League clubs manage to have so many stars on their books whilst still being within the salary cap) through the circumstance of Salford and the good doctor, the clubs that have massive financial backing when compared to the rest are now looking to shave as much £'s as possible off their salary cap in order to make them legitimate within the eyes of the RFL.

For those youngsters who are willing to take a pay cut at the expense of the top stars, their actions are commendable and they are loyal and want to be apart of a club regardless .....They are players that you truly want at your club regardless of whether or not they will make it as a professional rugby league player.

Re: Six signed up, Reece Dean to leave : Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:10 am  

Geoff Tipps wrote:

That's because out of all the players you have mentioned, Reece Dean seems to be the most talented within their respected positions.

But, as the salary cap issue has finally been brought to the forth (regarding how the top Super League clubs manage to have so many stars on their books whilst still being within the salary cap) through the circumstance of Salford and the good doctor, the clubs that have massive financial backing when compared to the rest are now looking to shave as much £'s as possible off their salary cap in order to make them legitimate within the eyes of the RFL.

For those youngsters who are willing to take a pay cut at the expense of the top stars, their actions are commendable and they are loyal and want to be apart of a club regardless .....They are players that you truly want at your club regardless of whether or not they will make it as a professional rugby league player.

The first part isn't true and either shows your bias or lack of knowledge of our academy players, Dean hasn't represented his country while Litten and Turgut has, Dean certainly has the talent, but the coaching staff think he lacks something to make it to the very top out they would have made sure he stayed.

We have heard it all before about top young players and often they don't quite turn out to be the players expected Luke Briscoe and Tommy Lee Spring to mind.

We will have to see how it turns out and I hope he does well, we have made many mistakes releasing academy players on the past, only Hodgson, but that was due to circumstances of having to great hookers at the time.

I do agree with you, if I was Dean I'd be going over to Aus next year for many reason and not just the rugby.

Re: Six signed up, Reece Dean to leave : Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:54 am  

Geoff Tipps wrote:

That's because out of all the players you have mentioned, Reece Dean seems to be the most talented within their respected positions.

But, as the salary cap issue has finally been brought to the forth (regarding how the top Super League clubs manage to have so many stars on their books whilst still being within the salary cap) through the circumstance of Salford and the good doctor, the clubs that have massive financial backing when compared to the rest are now looking to shave as much £'s as possible off their salary cap in order to make them legitimate within the eyes of the RFL.

For those youngsters who are willing to take a pay cut at the expense of the top stars, their actions are commendable and they are loyal and want to be apart of a club regardless .....They are players that you truly want at your club regardless of whether or not they will make it as a professional rugby league player.

I could just about disagree with all of that.

There comes a time when academy players and the respective clubs have a decision to be make. The club will offer both what they believe a player to be worth at that time and also what they can afford in terms of cap. The player will have to do what’s best for him. Stay, leave for another club or leave the game altogether and get a ‘proper job’.

In terms of Dean the club obviously think he’s worth x and will play y number of games. He will have different x and y figures in his head, he’ll also look whats in front of him and also if he’s happy where he is. It’s a short career and leaving now might be in his best interests in the long run.

The bit about the ones who stay being the ones you want to keep, sometimes it is loyalty and commendable but naïve, lets face it, the clubs are only loyal to the good ones and the fans will soon forget a players loyalty once the player is deemed below standard. It can also show a lack of ambition, self-belief and settled in a comfort zone.

Generally clubs get it right but there will be players that just need a move to kick on, not sure if Dean has signed for us but if he has I hope he’s Hodgson type mistake by you but only time will tell.

Tyson Wilson is an odd one, I thought he would have broken through more than he has by now, both him and his brother have been talked up for a number of years as very promising academy products, wonder if he maybe needs a gig in the championship full time if he’s going to kick on.

Re: Six signed up, Reece Dean to leave : Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:15 am  

Spot on red