Re: What to do with the reserves : Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:42 am  

PrinterThe wrote:

It's not Leeds fault Reserves hasn't worked, the rest of SL and Championship shouldn't need us to hold there hand in doing it if it's the great idea people claim it is. It's also not our fault that other clubs haven't made the success of Dusl reg. that we have.

I'm not blaming Leeds for the failure of the reserve league, though of course they made no positive contribution in that area. Just because Leeds have been able to use (and abuse) the dual reg system more effectively anyone else doesn't mean the opportunities are there for all the other clubs. The Hull clubs don't have a dual reg partner that is a short bus ride away in the same city for a start. The current Hull partnership with Doncaster is looking good at the moment from a Hull point of view but if I was a Donny fan I'd be worried about their club losing its identity and independence.

A reserve league, or properly constituted feeder teams is best for the game in general but I wouldn't expect Hetherington to be too interested in sacrificing his current advantage.

[Karen]

Re: What to do with the reserves : Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:59 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

Okay, I just think that it is quite a leap to that having been influential in the downturn in Wire's fortunes, for example. Basically, Leeds were notable under performers in 2016, and were unusual among the wealthier teams in not running a reserves team that year. That very easily could be a coincidence, and I think it probably was. Even in 2016, the competition as it was then structured looked - being more generous than hindsight requires - to be taking initial tentative steps.

Nahhhh, that was down to them winning the league leaders...that shield has signed the winners to the bottom 4 for the last 2 years!!

[Karen]

Re: What to do with the reserves : Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:04 am  

PrinterThe wrote:

Yeah because before they restarted reserve teams the likes of Wigan, Warrington and Saints NEVER finished in the top 4.

Games were getting cancelled due to too many injuries at clubs, how is your fringe players and youngsters playing reserve games every week going to help that? You'll end up with even bigger injury lists because players will pick up injuries in that reserve competition too. If clubs couldn't cope with weekly first team games and the odd reserve game every several weeks how are they going to cope putting out teams for both every week?

For the criticism Leeds get for not running one and going Dual Reg. we just won a GF with a new core of young players who came through our setup more than playing there part and potentially being our core for the next 5-10 years . Jack Walker a GF winner at 18, Sutcliffe, Ward, Singleton all in their early 20's and over 100 appearances and a few medals to their names.

Look at some of those who ran reserves. Warrington had a similar season to us 12 months previously. We backed ourselves and squad and young players. Warrington have gone out and splashed cash in bringing players in. Wigan get praised but look at recruitment since reserves started. An ex player in Sarginson brought back even though this former player returning has been a poor tactic for them and a young Aussie forward, last year another former player in Leuluai and two French players? Where's the real results for their two years of running reserves? The likes of Williams, Burgess, Gildart, Powell had broken through BEFORE reserves. They had the two young wingers Davies and Marshall last season but they'd have played anyway last year due to injuries.

It's not Leeds fault Reserves hasn't worked, the rest of SL and Championship shouldn't need us to hold there hand in doing it if it's the great idea people claim it is. It's also not our fault that other clubs haven't made the success of Dusl reg. that we have.

And players don't get injured at their duel reg clubs don't they?? Wherever they play, injuries are going to occur so that argument is seriously flawed!

For me, it's about being a part of the team and as has been mentioned, I feel for Donny because they are more like FC reserves and are losing their own identity. I'm not saying that duel reg isn't a viable option because it clearly is, but I'd prefer the lads to be training and playing within the FC umbrella rather than learning the Donny way and then having to relearn ours when they jump into the first team.

Re: What to do with the reserves : Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:48 am  

Erik the not red wrote:

I'm not blaming Leeds for the failure of the reserve league, though of course they made no positive contribution in that area. Just because Leeds have been able to use (and abuse) the dual reg system more effectively anyone else doesn't mean the opportunities are there for all the other clubs. The Hull clubs don't have a dual reg partner that is a short bus ride away in the same city for a start. The current Hull partnership with Doncaster is looking good at the moment from a Hull point of view but if I was a Donny fan I'd be worried about their club losing its identity and independence.

A reserve league, or properly constituted feeder teams is best for the game in general but I wouldn't expect Hetherington to be too interested in sacrificing his current advantage.

Featherstone isn't in Leeds and god forbid players having to travel an hour down the motorway.

And if Reserves teams are such a great idea and better than Dual Reg. then isn't Heatherington putting himself and Leeds at a disadvantage?

Nothing stopping the other 11 SL teams and some Championship teams running a Reserve League without Leeds. The excuse that the likes of Hull, Saints and Wire are using that not enough teams are doing it is poor when the likes of Wakey and Leigh are starting teams now.

Re: What to do with the reserves : Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:59 am  

Karen wrote:

And players don't get injured at their duel reg clubs don't they?? Wherever they play, injuries are going to occur so that argument is seriously flawed!

For me, it's about being a part of the team and as has been mentioned, I feel for Donny because they are more like FC reserves and are losing their own identity. I'm not saying that duel reg isn't a viable option because it clearly is, but I'd prefer the lads to be training and playing within the FC umbrella rather than learning the Donny way and then having to relearn ours when they jump into the first team.

Yes players will still get injured, the point is Hull, Wigan, whoever need 34 fit players to fufill fixtures that weekend. If a Leeds player get injured at Feb they should still be fine fielding a 17 that weekend.

That Wigan in particular had so much trouble being able to fulfill fixtures at all levels due to lack of fit players shows the problem and that with a small reserve fixture list. A big one would only make it tougher and more fixtures would be cancelled.

As for being part of a team and a club culture thing well Leeds seem to do just fine with that aspect and Cas weren't to shabby either this year.

Re: What to do with the reserves : Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:36 pm  

PrinterThe wrote:

Yes players will still get injured, the point is Hull, Wigan, whoever need 34 fit players to fufill fixtures that weekend. If a Leeds player get injured at Feb they should still be fine fielding a 17 that weekend.

That Wigan in particular had so much trouble being able to fulfill fixtures at all levels due to lack of fit players shows the problem and that with a small reserve fixture list. A big one would only make it tougher and more fixtures would be cancelled.

As for being part of a team and a club culture thing well Leeds seem to do just fine with that aspect and Cas weren't to shabby either this year.

There is a much publicized shortage of players right now. Without dual reg, lower league clubs brought through youngsters, or amateurs. With the easy option of drafting in SL squad players - those youngsters and amateurs will never get the chance. Also, with a reserve league clubs used to get to test trialists. Hull have signed a few union players over the years because of successful stints in the reserves. Surely the argument is that simple?

Re: What to do with the reserves : Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:26 pm  

Raggytash wrote:

There is a much publicized shortage of players right now. Without dual reg, lower league clubs brought through youngsters, or amateurs. With the easy option of drafting in SL squad players - those youngsters and amateurs will never get the chance. Also, with a reserve league clubs used to get to test trialists. Hull have signed a few union players over the years because of successful stints in the reserves. Surely the argument is that simple?

There is a shortage of players, which makes trying to fulfill both first team and reserve fixtures unrealistic.

Lower league clubs can still bring through youngsters and the lower leagues are full of players that were in Leeds' academy, players they wouldn't have if we kept them for ourselves just to make sure we could fulfill reserve fixtures in the hope of not missing out on a late bloomer.

Leeds have signed a few former Union players too. Keinhorst and Walters and they set up and scored out winning try in the 2015 GF.....so you don't need reserves to do that.

Re: What to do with the reserves : Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:25 pm  

PrinterThe wrote:

There is a shortage of players, which makes trying to fulfill both first team and reserve fixtures unrealistic.

Lower league clubs can still bring through youngsters and the lower leagues are full of players that were in Leeds' academy, players they wouldn't have if we kept them for ourselves just to make sure we could fulfill reserve fixtures in the hope of not missing out on a late bloomer.

Leeds have signed a few former Union players too. Keinhorst and Walters and they set up and scored out winning try in the 2015 GF.....so you don't need reserves to do that.

Hull have enough players to fulfill first team and reserve matches. So do Halifax. Neither of these clubs are blessed with the same resources of Leeds. If it's unrealistic for Leeds to run a reserve team, I'd class that as a monumental failure. The lower leagues are also scattered with ex Hull academy players, some of which would be plying their trade in our reserves if the Alliance system was mandatory. I have no doubt some of the ex Leeds kids would be in your reserve team too. If reserves were mandatory, then every one of those Leeds/Hull players that are currently playing in the lower leagues would instead be a player not currently playing in the pro leagues and expanding our player base.

Re: What to do with the reserves : Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:28 am  

Raggytash wrote:

Hull have enough players to fulfill first team and reserve matches. So do Halifax. Neither of these clubs are blessed with the same resources of Leeds. If it's unrealistic for Leeds to run a reserve team, I'd class that as a monumental failure. The lower leagues are also scattered with ex Hull academy players, some of which would be plying their trade in our reserves if the Alliance system was mandatory. I have no doubt some of the ex Leeds kids would be in your reserve team too. If reserves were mandatory, then every one of those Leeds/Hull players that are currently playing in the lower leagues would instead be a player not currently playing in the pro leagues and expanding our player base.

Leeds are well resourced but that doesn't stop you getting injuries.....look at Wigan this year and cancelling Reserve games. And we may well be able to cope every week but it's redundant if several others struggle and cancel.

Shouldn't be mandatory, should let clubs choose and not be forced to have a system they don't want. You don't need every SL team in it to make it work or have enough fixtures. If there's only 6 teams doing it then just play each other 4 times a year instead of twice. If it's truest about giving young players game time and injured players a return to fitness then it doesn't need to be a 12 team home and away even fixture list.

Re: What to do with the reserves : Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:20 pm  

Karen wrote:

And players don't get injured at their duel reg clubs don't they?? Wherever they play, injuries are going to occur so that argument is seriously flawed!

For me, it's about being a part of the team and as has been mentioned, I feel for Donny because they are more like FC reserves and are losing their own identity. I'm not saying that duel reg isn't a viable option because it clearly is, but I'd prefer the lads to be training and playing within the FC umbrella rather than learning the Donny way and then having to relearn ours when they jump into the first team.

The Donny way is the same as FC ,Horne might be coach at dons but everything is taught the same way,not as skilful or as fast but the same way.