Player development : Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:35 am  

Looking at the under 19’s of which there are many - who are the tips for the top?



Christian Ackroyd looked good a bit back but not having seen him recently is he still on track?

As for those who are already featuring in the first team I’d like to suggest to these lads that they give CC there all because there are not many coaches who seem as ready to give youth a go as he is - I know he’s not had much choice but none the less he resisted the temptation to bring old crocks in on loan.

I like the look of Batchelor who apart from being a solid player has what Johnstone and Ellis seem to have, an older head on young shoulders - see him as a L/F eventually.

Crowther can’t be far off that “I’ve arrived” game, been solid so far without being spectacular.

Moules has been pretty similar to Crowther though not as far along.

Mazive not so sure about this lad, a bit small and core skills need some work.

Obviously Jowitt and Johnstone are now first team though not automatic.

Re: Player development : Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:02 pm  

Other than Jowitt, Johnstone, Crowther all still listed as being with the U-19s. Crowther needs to push on this year and cement himself in the first team.

Would expect to see more of Batchelor and Moules this year. If Scott Moore is away then a lot more of him.

You missed Fraser Morris off your list. He's been involved with the first team a bit as well.

Re: Player development : Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:01 pm  

Moules and Crowther I think (hope) will play more games this year. Batchelor as well maybe.

The likes of Morris, Senior, Mazive I think it'd a be a year too soon for them to play more regularly.

Drip feeding them into the first team is better in the long run.

Re: Player development : Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:19 am  

I've not been down to a 19s game in a couple of years, how are we looking on the forwards now? Any quality young lads coming through?

Re: Player development : Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:27 pm  

There's a Wakefield Trinity Category 3 match tomorrow at 2:00pm at Belle Vue.

Wakefield Vs Bishop Burton (Hull Joint Academy)
Entry is free

Whilst they compete in the Colleges league these teams are quite largely made up of 1st year Senior Academy U19s players who are attending the various colleges around the country.

Re: Player development : Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:51 am  

Clan, a genuine question : having watched RL for 40 years it is my opinion that in general the skill set of RL players in UK from SL to under 15 Academy has never been so poor. Yes the players are bigger, stronger and fitter but the ability to pass, step, etc is non existent in many cases. Quite simple the ability to tackle has deteriorated over the years to a level that is just pathetic. From the outside it may be to easy to suggest that this is because of the massive emphasis now on putting size on young players, hours in the gym. Clubs do a first class job of bulking up young lads. Is this at the expense of improving skills. I understand that players spend a lot of time on wrestle techniques, slowing down the play of the ball etc but do coaches still spend any time teaching players how to tackle, it does not look like it.
There are exceptions, what a joy it is to watch Rob Burrows or Danny Brough or George Williams make the perfect leg tackle. We had our own great tacklers in the fairly recent past, Duncan McGilvary, Sam Obst, Nigel Bell were great.

[PopTart]

Re: Player development : Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:16 am  

I was talking about this to my mate last night.

I think one of the reasons is the 10 metre rule.
It was changed to give the play maker more time and hopefully enhance the skills rather than seeing big fat forwards just swamping the skilful little half back.
But it has actually changed the game to be more of an advantage to the big athletic types. If you can run and bust a tackle because you now have a better run up (or smash the runner if you are a defender) you are very valuable to a team.
We often see a big pack or even a big team simply dominate the opposition because they simply can't handle the size.
The need for the skilful players is less if you have that team, providing they are efficient on errors and big in body.

The likes of Harry Pinner or Barry Johnson as a skilful ball handler are not seen any more. James Graham is an exception of course but he has size too.

I do think there is a minimum value to skills. A big guy who can't hold the ball or can't tackle won't make it. But a big guy who can't pass will.
Defence is important but you can put a big guy with poor technique in the middle channel as he is front on tackling with lots of support around. It's only when it's late in the game and the Danny Brough type runs at him that he gets shown up......but if the coach has managed is subs right he's swapped him by then.

So I don't know whether the skills have diminished, as much as just hidden being the big muscly guy.
I'd be interested to know what Clan says too.

[Bullseye]

Re: Player development : Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:35 am  

I think one issue is that many lads at U16s and U19s don’t get enough opportunities to play. The number of fixtures is quite low and it’s only in competitive games that you get to put into practice what you learn on the training ground.

The style of the game has changed. There’s not much you can do about that at U16 and U19 level though. The days of the smaller ball handling 13 are gone unless he can combine those skills with impeccable defence.

Re: Player development : Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:52 am  

I would also suggest that coaching at community clubs is partly to blame; too many teams are coached by angry dads with a qualification you can get from the RFL at a one day course - and there is no real oversight or support from the RFL or professional clubs, so once they've got their badge, they are free to do what they like. Couple that with junior leagues being organised by age and geared towards winning, and you have a slew of teams who will eschew skills development for the sake of the big lads plowing it down the middle and bullying their way to the try line and ultimately, some kind of trophy at the end of the season.

By the time many players get picked up by a SL academy, the coach is faced with the job of completely re-educating them and trying to catch them up with basic skills, as well as the finer points of the game required to make it in SL.

That said - I wouldn't disagree that the modern game has evolved in such a way that the small, skillful player is less valuable than he once was; to the detriment of the game as a spectacle in my opinion.

Re: Player development : Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:13 pm  

bren2k wrote:

I would also suggest that coaching at community clubs is partly to blame; too many teams are coached by angry dads with a qualification you can get from the RFL at a one day course - and there is no real oversight or support from the RFL or professional clubs, so once they've got their badge, they are free to do what they like. Couple that with junior leagues being organised by age and geared towards winning, and you have a slew of teams who will eschew skills development for the sake of the big lads plowing it down the middle and bullying their way to the try line and ultimately, some kind of trophy at the end of the season.

By the time many players get picked up by a SL academy, the coach is faced with the job of completely re-educating them and trying to catch them up with basic skills, as well as the finer points of the game required to make it in SL.

That said - I wouldn't disagree that the modern game has evolved in such a way that the small, skillful player is less valuable than he once was; to the detriment of the game as a spectacle in my opinion.

Correct, as ever Belly's language is ludicrously OTT and exagerated but there is a nub of truth. My particular grudge is that little effort is made to look after the physical late developers who for some reason are often the smarter more skillfull players.

My own lad fell into this catagory and for a while despite being great at unde 12 levels he simply couldn't compete physically and ended up being stuck on the wing if no one else was available or on the bench. He lost heart but worse still he's now bigger and stronger than most of those players he struggled with.

What he needed was the recognition from his Coach that he was a skilled player who needed special support through that period to help him, especially his tackling technique.

His coach new this but was happpy to bend to father pressure and play the big lads up the middle most of whom belonged to one clan or another.

I don't know if he'd have made it but he had some touches in his game especially his passing game that I'm yet to see in most Acadamy matches. The Aussies recognised this years ago which is why all there main NRL players have great core skills, even the forwards. We have been ten years behind them at International level for forty years but we've been 20 years behind them at junior development for just as long.

I know that we do quite well against the Aussies at Schoolboy/Junior level which is contradictory I know but once the players become full time pro's the core faults in thier development soon show and they rarely seem to be able to pull it back.