Re: Totally off topic but........ : Mon May 23, 2016 8:20 pm  

roverman wrote:

Cheap labour is the enemy of the working class it undermines everything so why are the Labour Party and trade unions not speaking out against the massive influx of cheap labour,because they all support the Euro project and don't care about the impact on ordinary working people.

Because Corbyn has sold his soul now he's got the top job, Clegg was the same when he got in charge although I would argue if he ever had any principles to start with. There's nobody at the top who gives a stuff about ordinary working people and that dare to speak out on the effects of mass migration.

Re: Totally off topic but........ : Mon May 23, 2016 9:56 pm  

deeHell wrote:

My personnel belief is that the biggest risk in the long term is Remaining. I'm willing to concede in the short term the biggest risk is Leaving but not the apocalyptic visions of Cameron and co. I'm motivated by my Children's future not my personnel short term material gain.

Considering we are a net contributor to the EU and run a massive trade deficit with the EU I can't see that us going down isn't going to take them down. Mutually assured economic chaos will see that a deal will be in place within 2 years of article 50 been invoked. I'm more concerned of the risks of Turkey joining the EU (if not official through affiliation) or us been dragged into future EU bail outs. All roads point to increase contributions and increased austerity over here. The Status Quo will not be an option. In uncertain times I would rather have the ability to hold to account the people that have the power to make these decisions.

I understand your thoughts and agree with some of it. However, although we are a "net contributor", countries like Norway and Switzerland (being in "similar" positions to that of Britain would be following "exit"), both have to contribute substantially to enjoy favorable trading conditions and they have absolutely no say in what happens in Europe.
We would be the same, therefore, this argument doesn't hold much sway.

Surely, we are better placed, trying to have influence "fighting" from within, as opposed to being dictated to on the
outside ?

Re: Totally off topic but........ : Mon May 23, 2016 10:18 pm  

Do you follow a man who likes a bit of a love in with the best bacon or go with the man who whilst playing foosball rugby tackles someone. Boris wins everytime for me. Doesnt matter whos in charge we all get rogered

Re: Totally off topic but........ : Mon May 23, 2016 10:48 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I understand your thoughts and agree with some of it. However, although we are a "net contributor", countries like Norway and Switzerland (being in "similar" positions to that of Britain would be following "exit"), both have to contribute substantially to enjoy favorable trading conditions and they have absolutely no say in what happens in Europe.
We would be the same, therefore, this argument doesn't hold much sway.

Surely, we are better placed, trying to have influence "fighting" from within, as opposed to being dictated to on the
outside ?

We have the 5th largest economy in the world so we'll hardly be getting the begging bowl out looking for trade partners. Neither are we in any way comparable with Norway and Switzerland.

We have absolutely zero influence in the EU, evidenced by the total lack of success that the idiot Cameron had when trying to negotiate a better deal for the UK.

We contribute around £88Million a day to the EU and after that figure is balanced off by the discounts and kickbacks we are still a net contributor of £32Million per Day
That's almost £12Billion a year that we contribute to the EU

£12 Billion Per Year net contributors

Coincidentally that's the same figure the Conservative zgovernment said they'd cut from Welfare at the last election, a figure they wouldn't be drawn on as to the where, who and how they'd do it!

£12 Billion!
How many schools is that?
How much housing?
How many Hospitals?

I'm no UKIP supporter and I'm not a Farage admirer but he's the only one talking any sense about immigration and he's the only one telling the truth about our inability to control our own borders while a member of the EU.

Everyone else fudges the issue and and throws up a smokescreen of "where would we be without immigration in the 50s & 60s"
Well that was then and we needed the immigration at that time but this is now and we don't need immigration on nearly the same scale.

"The NHS will fail without the influx of specialists, Consultants, Doctors and Nurses who come here to work in our NHS"

Well first of all, stop systematically undermining and underfunding the NHS so that you can Backdoor privatise it. Secondly, pay our own Medical and health staff properly and they might not feel the need to go work elsewhere. Finally, come on, who the hell do you think you're kidding! Walk through the Ridings centre on any afternoon and I'll tell you straight, it's not gangs of Consultant Doctors and Nurses that are sat around bothering young girls and intimidating anyone passing by.

Every form of infrastructure is stretched and broken,
Health
Education
Public Services
Housing
Welfare

We cannot continue to see mass immigration with no way whatsoever of stopping it, not while we're in the EU anyway, NONE!

Hey but I've outed myself haven't I?
I must be a racist or an uneducated bigot because I've broken the taboo and voiced my opinion against immigration.

You may now conveniently ignore anything I've said!

Re: Totally off topic but........ : Tue May 24, 2016 5:23 am  

How can we "go it alone" or be "self sufficient"? Most industry in this country is owned by foreign companies who at only here because we're in the EU. You think they'll hang around, nope. We don't even own our utilities anymore! The damage was done years ago when we were sold down the river. Sounds bleak but it's how I see it.

Re: Totally off topic but........ : Tue May 24, 2016 7:32 am  

I think I am out but not 100% sure yet.

I lived and worked abroad for just short of 4 years in an EU country, with a higher salary than what i earn in the UK, for doing the same job.

With that and the almost constant sunshine the Med brings, I aim to do that again one day.

The main reason of moving back to the UK, was so that our children can finish their education.

I just dont know yet, as to whether coming out of the EU would reduce that opportunity of going back

Re: Totally off topic but........ : Tue May 24, 2016 7:42 am  

The Avenger wrote:

We have the 5th largest economy in the world so we'll hardly be getting the begging bowl out looking for trade partners. Neither are we in any way comparable with Norway and Switzerland.

We have absolutely zero influence in the EU, evidenced by the total lack of success that the idiot Cameron had when trying to negotiate a better deal for the UK.

We contribute around £88Million a day to the EU and after that figure is balanced off by the discounts and kickbacks we are still a net contributor of £32Million per Day
That's almost £12Billion a year that we contribute to the EU

£12 Billion Per Year net contributors

Coincidentally that's the same figure the Conservative zgovernment said they'd cut from Welfare at the last election, a figure they wouldn't be drawn on as to the where, who and how they'd do it!

£12 Billion!
How many schools is that?
How much housing?
How many Hospitals?

I'm no UKIP supporter and I'm not a Farage admirer but he's the only one talking any sense about immigration and he's the only one telling the truth about our inability to control our own borders while a member of the EU.

Everyone else fudges the issue and and throws up a smokescreen of "where would we be without immigration in the 50s & 60s"
Well that was then and we needed the immigration at that time but this is now and we don't need immigration on nearly the same scale.

"The NHS will fail without the influx of specialists, Consultants, Doctors and Nurses who come here to work in our NHS"

Well first of all, stop systematically undermining and underfunding the NHS so that you can Backdoor privatise it. Secondly, pay our own Medical and health staff properly and they might not feel the need to go work elsewhere. Finally, come on, who the hell do you think you're kidding! Walk through the Ridings centre on any afternoon and I'll tell you straight, it's not gangs of Consultant Doctors and Nurses that are sat around bothering young girls and intimidating anyone passing by.

Every form of infrastructure is stretched and broken,
Health
Education
Public Services
Housing
Welfare

We cannot continue to see mass immigration with no way whatsoever of stopping it, not while we're in the EU anyway, NONE!

Hey but I've outed myself haven't I?
I must be a racist or an uneducated bigot because I've broken the taboo and voiced my opinion against immigration.

You may now conveniently ignore anything I've said!

I agree with you on the migration issue.
Although "free movement" is a great ideal, in this area, clearly, something has to change, not because your pro or anti Europe but, because it's just not sensible.
You clearly feel strongly about the issue but, what additional cost's do you think we will incur being "on the outside".
Currently we have the ability to trade freely and without constraint across the Euro nations so, how will this change following "exit".

Re: Totally off topic but........ : Tue May 24, 2016 8:55 am  

Voting to leave will make no difference to immigration, despite what the leave campaign want you to believe. Leaving the EU and the massive economic benefits it brings with it will blow a gaping hole in the economy that can only be filled by signing up to free trade agreements, one of the major ones having to be with the EU. A consequence of this will be having to accept their conditions or it won't happen and if it doesn't this country is screwed. One of these rules is freedom of movement for workers, exactly the same as now. The ONLY way to try temper this is to have a seat at the table and try and change the rules from the inside, as with anything in life you certainly won't be able to change it from the outside looking in.

The UK is the 5th largest economy BECAUSE of being in the EU, not in spite of it. Yes the EU is expanding and that is why it is vital that we are part of it. Trying to trade outside it will only get harder and tade deals take an awful long time to set up, for exanple the EU's deal with Canada is only just getting going and its been over 7 years in the making. And don't think for a second that countries can't get what we have to sell elsewhere because they can. Also bare in mind that the SNP have said that a vote to leave could spark a new referendum in Scotland as they want to be in the EU. Them leaving would further damage this countries economy and influence.

Being proud of your country is fine and should always be the case but the world has changed in the last 30 years, people have to accept and embrace that. We cannot all be little Englandersanymore and shout brittantia rules the waves and expect to be a super power, the world doesn't work like that anymore. Our manufacturing has changed beyond recognition for starters to a point where we are no longer self sufficent (think the surge in china, nothing to do with the EU) and many of our biggest employers are owned by overseas conpanies who rely on the benefits being part of the free state brings. I can't stand Cameron and his cronies but on this one he is right, we are way better off in the EU. And having Boris as leader will bury thiscountry once and for all, the bloke is a first class buffoon. The damage that will be done by voting to leave doesn't bear thinking about.

Re: Totally off topic but........ : Tue May 24, 2016 9:03 am  

Sacred Cow wrote:

Voting to leave will make no difference to immigration, despite what the leave campaign want you to believe.

Absolutely true; for the much vaunted trade agreements enjoyed by Norway and Switzerland - they have to allow free movement; so the Shangri-La promised by Farage and co of being outside the EU, but enjoying all the benefits of trade etc, is a lie. As is the IDS line on each migrant worker displacing x number of UK workers; those figures he bandied about were actually taken from a study on non EU migrants, so again, more lies.

Equally - we can control our borders for non EU migrants and have been able to for a long time; how has that worked out in terms of controlling non EU immigration? Answer - it hasn't.

I'll be voting Remain - the days of Empire are over, and the UK is only a powerhouse because of our influential position in the EU; outside of it, I believe we'll become an irrelevance. I do however support reform of the EU - something which we'll be much better placed to achieve from the inside.

Re: Totally off topic but........ : Tue May 24, 2016 9:30 am  

bren2k wrote:

Absolutely true; for the much vaunted trade agreements enjoyed by Norway and Switzerland - they have to allow free movement; so the Shangri-La promised by Farage and co of being outside the EU, but enjoying all the benefits of trade etc, is a lie. As is the IDS line on each migrant worker displacing x number of UK workers; those figures he bandied about were actually taken from a study on non EU migrants, so again, more lies.

Equally - we can control our borders for non EU migrants and have been able to for a long time; how has that worked out in terms of controlling non EU immigration? Answer - it hasn't.

I'll be voting Remain - the days of Empire are over, and the UK is only a powerhouse because of our influential position in the EU; outside of it, I believe we'll become an irrelevance. I do however support reform of the EU - something which we'll be much better placed to achieve from the inside.

Absolutely spot on.

I'd also like to point out the other myth the leave campaign peddles which is the £350m per week it supposedly costs to be in the EU. It really doesn't. With the rebate we instantly get, the extra trade we have due to being inside and the hand outs given for individual projects the monetary benefits far outweigh the money spent to be in. Leaving would actually cost money and where do you think that shortfall would come from? Yep, the tax payer through higher taxation and deeper cuts to services.