Re: Takeover updates : Wed Oct 04, 2023 2:46 pm  

Trojan Horse wrote:

So basically you’re another fan upset about Poching and want Applegarth out. If you want to support and watch a Poching coaches team then go and follow him and any team he’s associated with. You absolutely along with others need to get over it and accept Poching is gone and it was a decision made by the owners a year ago. We will never know whether Poching would have succeeded.

Let’s just factor in your love for Poching and how he was having a positive influence for a moment though. Who was assistant to Poching during his positive tenure thst was a huge mistake getting rid? That’s right it was Applegarth. So if you were happy with the management direction then why aren’t you now happy with Applegarth stepping back into that role.

Applegarth fell short as a head coach this season at the penultimate round but there were mitigating factors as mentioned by Ellis and current owners that are in a much better position to comment than you or I. No assistant for large parts, team quality restrictions and experienced players who were mainstays leaving etc.

Now I do agree about the youth and settling for second best comment and that we settle for average. That part I can get on board and agree with 100%. There should be a mantra of achievement and striving for improvement about the club that we likely haven’t had for a few years.

We will have a clean sweep but it wouldn’t hurt to retain some individuals providing they can contribute to success. Powell and Ellis will determine that and I will support whatever decision they make.

Just one small comment about Poching , 42% record win record and we get rid ,to put a youth coach in who was way out of is depth .Do not think you fit into the fans of !!!we can not get rid of Applegarth he is Wakefield through and through !! but got to change it, like top teams if coach , players are not up to the job they get rid and it does not depend on weather they come through the youth team,or been there one year or 10 .If we do not we will never move forward .

Re: Takeover updates : Wed Oct 04, 2023 3:04 pm  

It is nothing about being correct. New owners may or may not offer a job. Applegarth may or may not want to stay on in any capacity. The only people who know are the people involved. Not so long a few of you knew exact date of takeover but even now the relevant parties still don't know so this is the same pure speculation. Let matters take course and enjoy the new upbeat state o affairs

Re: Takeover updates : Wed Oct 04, 2023 3:09 pm  

Trin e ti wrote:

It is nothing about being correct. New owners may or may not offer a job. Applegarth may or may not want to stay on in any capacity. The only people who know are the people involved. Not so long a few of you knew exact date of takeover but even now the relevant parties still don't know so this is the same pure speculation. Let matters take course and enjoy the new upbeat state o affairs

Surely you're not suggesting that these "In The Know Fans" we actually not in the know and knew about as much as the rest of us but just made stuff up to make them look good and also to suit their agenda?
Surely not, it was written IN CAPS so must have been nailed on

Re: Takeover updates : Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:43 pm  

alegend wrote:

Just one small comment about Poching , 42% record win record and we get rid ,to put a youth coach in who was way out of is depth .Do not think you fit into the fans of !!!we can not get rid of Applegarth he is Wakefield through and through !! but got to change it, like top teams if coach , players are not up to the job they get rid and it does not depend on weather they come through the youth team,or been there one year or 10 .If we do not we will never move forward .

Can you seriously just let the Poching love affair drop and stop using it as any sort of excuse to bash any coach hereafter. The decision was made. Regardless of the performance or percentage. I suspect Poching would have struggled and had a much worse win percentage losing the players we did from 2022 and been behind the cue ball on recruitment. We will never now though and it’s not important at all now in whether Applegarth stays on in some capacity unless your Poching or hurt/offended on his behalf. The owners wanted to appoint another coach which they did in Applegarth.

This is not about Poching but about whether the new owners or Powell believe that Applegarth can bring the value or what they needs now or in the future.

Nobody that I can see is saying we can’t get rid as he’s Trinity through and through. They’ve merely stated he is trinity through and through.

The players have and are being changed and the head coach has been changed. That is already happening. I don’t see an issue of Powell or the owners see Applegarth as adding to the set up. Equally I don’t see issue if they don’t.

Re: Takeover updates : Wed Oct 04, 2023 5:38 pm  

alegend wrote:

Just one small comment about Poching , 42% record win record and we get rid ,to put a youth coach in who was way out of is depth .Do not think you fit into the fans of !!!we can not get rid of Applegarth he is Wakefield through and through !! but got to change it, like top teams if coach , players are not up to the job they get rid and it does not depend on weather they come through the youth team,or been there one year or 10 .If we do not we will never move forward .

The 42% win record only exists if you factor in the run at the end of the season that, by all accounts at the time, had little to do with him.

Finance is behind everything. We can't afford a good coach because they cost money. So, we end up with a substandard coach who we then can't get rid of, because we can't afford to pay them off, to then recruit another even cheaper coach (as we've spent the coaching budget on getting rid of the old one). A vicious cycle and our relegation has been coming for years, a slow death, with Yorkcourt refusing us the medicine we needed.

Re: Takeover updates : Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:56 am  

Taken from RWB Facebook page,

MEMBER SHAREHOLDER MEETING UPDATE

Firstly apologies for not posting last night. A late finish, a trip to pick the wife up on the way, back to Leeds, another late one tonight as I'm off to Liverpool for the football. I thought it would be easier to update this morning instead.
Obviously, very disappointed that Matt chose not to attend last night. However, perfectly understand the reasons why when they were explained in the e-mail and from John. In effect, the complete signing over of the takeover isn't complete and it's probably not appropriate for all the plans and discussions to be revealed till everything is over the line. There is no indication at all that there is any concern in this, it will happen, probably in the next few days but as is usual with this sort of thing, solicitors do take a little more time.
With that in mind, I'll just put this up now. A lot of the questions regarding staffing, player retention, plans for the future etc... were met with a "you better ask Matt that one" last night. No problems with that at all and I am sure everyone will when we get the opportunity so I can only share what we were told last night. But... the confidentiality clause was raised at the beginning of the meeting again about sharing the discussions that happen in these meetings with everyone else. I perfectly get that but I've got 50 people who all contributed to the share scheme in some capacity from the group and without that investment as a collective, I wouldn't be sat there last night on behalf of those. There's probably also another 1k + of fans eager to know what's going on. There will be areas that I won't disclose in this review but you will get the overall picture I hope. Any of those 50 that contributed and want any clarification on any area then you can private message me and I will happily discuss there in due course but I don't think there is anything alarming that I don't share. Don't forget, there is always updates on other social media channels as well from members who don't use this medium.
The main presentation last night from John was to cover the season's aims and progress in each of the areas and more importantly look at the IMG criteria and how we rank alongside it. There were 5 key points for the season (I can't remember all 5 and didn't feel appropriate to be taking pictures of the presentation) but "On The Field Success" was one of them and this was marked down as a red grade and obviously a failure. They had tried to stay in SL and the the investment in the middle of the season to try and turn things around didn't work out in the end. I don't think I need to add anymore on that. The new build of the stand was flagged as amber grade. It was obviously delayed in line with the early discussions and we are looking at a December completion now. Loads of reasons here away from the club, builder delays, poor work, sub contracted work delayed, electrical issues. All in essence part of construction and come with the job. It's the other areas I couldn't remember, think it was to do with investment, running a sustainable club etc.... We are going to post a loss again this season but then again so will everyone else and ours isn't as bad as a lot of other teams. Decline in TV money again doesn't help and a brief discussion regarding the Sky deal showed the future of the sport is a real concern. We are competing with emerging sports on Sky now (women's football, netball and such are more and more shown on the bigger Sky channels and it's very rare that the main televised game for Super League is shown anywhere else but say Sky Sports Arena (and not Main Event). But, that's the game we currently have and if Sky remain the main company that comes to the table then they have a lot of control to what we actually think. C4 and Viaplay were mentioned but nothing confirmed as to what their involvement will be in SL or the Championship next season.
Onto IMG which was the main area of discussion and here is the confidentiality bit regarding the actual scores. I won't give the exact numbers we were given last night as there are (as we know) lots of spies and fake accounts on here and some of those may well be linked to other clubs. I don't want to cause any concerns but I think we all had a rough idea of where we were. I'll start by saying (and this wasn't something released last night, just something I have taken from the group) that when I asked a few fans to reflect on the grading and give us an estimate of where we were, the average score was 12 (I'll call this the supporter average). I'll use that as the benchmark without actually revealing the scores we were given but you should be able to work it out yourself. Each club were given their scores recently and ours came in a little bit below the supporter average. Obviously disappointing BUT..... this was scored on the 2022 season. A lot of things weren't in construction or built in that season. A brief explanation as to how that score comes about but gives the club an opportunity to identify areas where we can improve but also bear in mind that this was a trial scoring run and doesn't really count for much in terms of SL places, just gives clubs a chance to look at areas and ask the question, why did we score this in this area and not that etc... So, John put his calculations together from the 2023 season (which we will submit soon) and with the increase in certain areas (ground usage, investment, profitability, social media interactions and followers. His estimation is that the score will then increase above the supporter average and put us in a good position overall. And then in 2024 with the increase in sponsorship and investment from the new owner, LED advertisements and things like that (all the quick wins that we can sort out thanks to the investment side of things) then that score increases again to even further above the supporter average and puts us very close to, if not just above the score needed for an A grade status. Now, before we all crack open the bubbly, these are his estimations. I'm not saying he is right, I am not saying he is wrong but if the IMG criteria says you score 0.3 points for getting a big screen and you have one, then you score 0.3 points. The Community Catchment area was one that raised a discussion about number of people living in the area and we have asked for clarification on that, especially been situated in an area with Fev & Cas. This may increase that score in that area but then again Cas, Fev, Halifax, Huddersfield... let's say a lot of clubs have catchment areas with other clubs so they could have their score increased as well.
In short, there was a lot of discussion regarding each of the areas but that's the short of it. Whilst things look bleak when we got relegated, actually the forecast is quite positive with the off the field work we are doing. They didn't confirm this last night but it does sort of add a case to say last season the board meetings could have gone down the route of "well don't worry too much if we go down because here is our IMG forecast and we should be good in the next 12 to 24 months compared to others". I am sure On The Field success was the key target in previous seasons but now the IMG criteria looks at a lot of other areas, it just becomes something to add to the list instead of been the "key target". If we win the Championship next season and win the 1895 cup, the actual IMG points score won't increase that much. But... if we increase our social media engagement by say x amount of followers and interactions then we score more points overall. I think it was 0.11 points for the Cup wins and 0.2 points for the social media increase. Daft really but hey, that's the cards we and others have been dealt.
If I was Castleford though, I would spend as little as possible on the squad next season and invest it in other areas within the ground instead. Why buy a new scrum half when you can use that money on a big screen purchase to increase your IMG points. Why give Greg Eden a new deal when you can sign someone on less money and spend that difference on padded seats in the main stand for the directors to sit in. The key point would be to the fans at say a forum, don't leave us, keep following our Social Media platforms because it might seem stupid now that we are getting battered on the field but you will see the reasons why in the long term. You then wonder what IMG have brought to the table ? Sky money won't increase for me when the on the field product is no good. If Cas do score less than 12 clubs in the IMG side of things (and I'm not saying they will here as I could easily use Salford as an example) then they could finish 4th next season and end up going down compared to say Leeds or Warrington who may well finish bottom but are safe with their A grade status.
I'll end with, John came across really well last night and has clearly invested a lot of time and work in the IMG side of things. I don't know his future but if there is a decision for him to stay on in some capacity and continue this side of work then I'm all for it. If the decision is that there isn't a role for him then he goes with my best wishes as I am sure this key piece of work that was presented last night forms a lot of what we are about and what we need to do to align with the new forms of competition. A lot of the members present last night share the same point of view as well I am sure.
Over and out !

[PopTart]

Re: Takeover updates : Thu Oct 05, 2023 9:46 am  

I don't think the scores should really have been quoted, or nearly quoted on FB. I can only imagine what they'll be saying.
Especially as JM specifically said he didn't tell other chairmen what ours was.

Saying that, they were just JMs calculations for next year and beyond.

Personally, I think we are in quite a strong position on the IMG side of things.
It was good that JM explained some of the finances and in particular, when we post a loss, you have to consider that includes the non cash items like depreciation that are not considered when looking at Finances on IMG criteria.

Re: Takeover updates : Thu Oct 05, 2023 9:56 am  

The member shareholder meeting update from the RWB Facebook page is an accurate assessment of the the meeting last night …
My thoughts coming away from the meeting was that … while I’m not a fan of the IMG grading criteria… we all need to get our heads round it because it’s essentially become as important as the on field product…

I agree also that it would appear that John Minards has spent a lot of time and effort pouring over these figures and I doubt anyone at our club has a better handle on it than him.
I’m hoping that he stays at the club to oversee the IMG grades, dealing with the council and RFL.. but at the moment this remains to be seen..

Re: Takeover updates : Thu Oct 05, 2023 10:10 am  

PopTart wrote:

I don't think the scores should really have been quoted, or nearly quoted on FB. I can only imagine what they'll be saying.
Especially as JM specifically said he didn't tell other chairmen what ours was.

Saying that, they were just JMs calculations for next year and beyond.

Personally, I think we are in quite a strong position on the IMG side of things.
It was good that JM explained some of the finances and in particular, when we post a loss, you have to consider that includes the non cash items like depreciation that are not considered when looking at Finances on IMG criteria.

I think we’re in a good position regarding grades,
Regarding the scores at the moment nobody really knows what they are going to get.. and we will all know soon enough the scores that other clubs got.
It is then that we need to make sure that we squeeze every last point out of IMG..
But we’re in a better position with the stadium and the takeover than some other clubs moving forward.

[PopTart]

Re: Takeover updates : Thu Oct 05, 2023 10:44 am  

Belle Vue wrote:

I think we’re in a good position regarding grades,
Regarding the scores at the moment nobody really knows what they are going to get.. and we will all know soon enough the scores that other clubs got.
It is then that we need to make sure that we squeeze every last point out of IMG..
But we’re in a better position with the stadium and the takeover than some other clubs moving forward.

Well we don't know the scores from the RFL audit but the criteria is clear and you can work it out if you have all the info, which JM has.