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Posted by FickleFingerOfFate on Tue May 23, 2017 5:00 pm
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vastman wrote:
wrencat1873 wrote:
So, with the 5 year plan, to attain a SL spot, that Perez and his group have set out, you are saying that they will only get half way through ? seriously ?

Their sponsorship deals, marketing and vision put most of SL, maybe all, to shame.
The only reason that it would fall flat is if they were ineligible for SL, which would see them hit a dead end.
Maybe you know something that the rest of us dont ?


I do, I've heard and seen all this before. Oh and by the way who is we? There are plenty of people who don't think it will work, rather an assumption on your part.

However what it all boils down to as is the case with all expansion clubs is the fan base and a genuine interest in the game. I see neither. No fan base, no player base, no domestic league - all the things that the only ever successful expansion team has - that's Catalan.

If it captures the publics imagination and it's a huge if long term i.e. a couple of seasons then fine maybe - however the sponsors will soon turn off the money tap if it doesn't - it's called reality.

For some reason we assume the people of Toronto want RL, they may be curious for now but want it, where's your proof? Nobody and I mean nobody will financially support a sport nobody wants certainly not in North America.

They couldn't do it in London - a far richer city and bigger city than Toronto with a population many of whom are very familiar with the game. They had Richard Branson backing for a while but he soon backed out when he realised what a money pit it was.All the sponsorships in the world won't make something work if there is no market for it, RL is rapidly becoming the Sinclair C5 of sport.

I honestly don't get your optimism, your clearly ignoring all recent history. I'm a great believer in being positive but not foolhardy. Sorry.

I actually think the first 2 or 3 years will be the easiest playing but the hardest selling the game, with most teams they play being part time, as proved with Barrow.
When a SL team can go out there, probably a couple of days before the match and have some open training sessions and possibly get round the local schools, that's where the 'sell' is.
As for London failing, they didn't have the grass roots in place when Fulham started and relied on 'northern' players.
I think the Canadians will take to it, after all they watch la crosse!
Posted by wrencat1873 on Tue May 23, 2017 5:09 pm
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vastman wrote:
I do, I've heard and seen all this before. Oh and by the way who is we? There are plenty of people who don't think it will work, rather an assumption on your part.

However what it all boils down to as is the case with all expansion clubs is the fan base and a genuine interest in the game. I see neither. No fan base, no player base, no domestic league - all the things that the only ever successful expansion team has - that's Catalan.

If it captures the publics imagination and it's a huge if long term i.e. a couple of seasons then fine maybe - however the sponsors will soon turn off the money tap if it doesn't - it's called reality.

For some reason we assume the people of Toronto want RL, they may be curious for now but want it, where's your proof? Nobody and I mean nobody will financially support a sport nobody wants certainly not in North America.

They couldn't do it in London - a far richer city and bigger city than Toronto with a population many of whom are very familiar with the game. They had Richard Branson backing for a while but he soon backed out when he realised what a money pit it was.All the sponsorships in the world won't make something work if there is no market for it, RL is rapidly becoming the Sinclair C5 of sport.

I honestly don't get your optimism, your clearly ignoring all recent history. I'm a great believer in being positive but not foolhardy. Sorry.


It's hard to disagree with your post and history would suggest that their chances of success (for now, reaching SL would be the best measure of that).
Perez and his backers certainly believe that there will be a demand for the sport and in the modern world, top quality marketing can persuade people to do all sorts of things, even watching RL :D

We'll have to let time be the judge on this on.
However IF they make it in to SL, that would be the next measure of success, although you have them "quitting" some time during the 2018 close season.
The Toronto thing just seems different to some of the other failed expansion ventures.

You may be right and I may just be a blind optimist (following Wakefield makes that compulsory) but, lets wait and see.
Posted by vastman on Tue May 23, 2017 5:26 pm
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wrencat1873 wrote:
It's hard to disagree with your post and history would suggest that their chances of success (for now, reaching SL would be the best measure of that).
Perez and his backers certainly believe that there will be a demand for the sport and in the modern world, top quality marketing can persuade people to do all sorts of things, even watching RL :D

We'll have to let time be the judge on this on.
However IF they make it in to SL, that would be the next measure of success, although you have them "quitting" some time during the 2018 close season.
The Toronto thing just seems different to some of the other failed expansion ventures.

You may be right and I may just be a blind optimist (following Wakefield makes that compulsory) but, lets wait and see.


It's just my opinion, I'm not usually cynical but it just seems a leap to far when you look at how we have failed in London and Wales to name but two.

Personally I'd rather see the money ploughed into York, Gateshead or Sheffield though I realise that will be of little interest to a Canadian but you get my point. Just me.
SUPPORT SWAG...
Posted by Big lads mate on Tue May 23, 2017 5:37 pm
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vastman wrote:
It's just my opinion, I'm not usually cynical but it just seems a leap to far when you look at how we have failed in London and Wales to name but two.

Personally I'd rather see the money ploughed into York, Gateshead or Sheffield though I realise that will be of little interest to a Canadian but you get my point. Just me.

Agree with you Vasty, I don't know if it's been said earlier but what's the point teams going there without main players due to visa problems. Hemel and Oxford travel from up North to play their home games :roll: crazy but not as far as Toronto players for their home games though :D
Posted by snowie on Tue May 23, 2017 5:54 pm
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expect nothing else from both sky and the beeb poor support to our cause
Posted by Eastern Wildcat on Tue May 23, 2017 9:06 pm
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I am with Vasty on this one.

I am all for expansion and would love to see this work, but am just a bit sceptical about this, and the logistics of it all. The recent fiasco with the Barrow players and their VISAs is a prime example of the issues faced.

I also dont like the way that they are allowed a higher salary cap disbursement than the other National League clubs.

We need to get our own house in order before we take it to another continent, let alone country.

I did read though a few weeks ago in a rugby magazine that there are now quite a few teams starting up in Northern, Central and South America, which can only be good for the game. Maybe if Perez worked closely with other American businesses, the money spent on Toronto could be better invested in an American Super League, though this could be a little way off yet.
Posted by wrencat1873 on Tue May 23, 2017 9:43 pm
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Eastern Wildcat wrote:
I am with Vasty on this one.

I am all for expansion and would love to see this work, but am just a bit sceptical about this, and the logistics of it all. The recent fiasco with the Barrow players and their VISAs is a prime example of the issues faced.

I also dont like the way that they are allowed a higher salary cap disbursement than the other National League clubs.

We need to get our own house in order before we take it to another continent, let alone country.

I did read though a few weeks ago in a rugby magazine that there are now quite a few teams starting up in Northern, Central and South America, which can only be good for the game. Maybe if Perez worked closely with other American businesses, the money spent on Toronto could be better invested in an American Super League, though this could be a little way off yet.


Just to pick up on the visa issues.
Frankly it's just mickey poor management.
The clubs know when the fixtures are happening and if they have players that cant travel, for whatever reason,
they need to plan around it.
Are we really saying that we shouldn't play overseas games because clubs cant organise their squad ??
Posted by Eastern Wildcat on Wed May 24, 2017 8:00 am
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Fair and valid point Wrencat.

Sure I read somewhere that VISA applications differ as to whether or not the player is full time, though cant see it changing.

Do feel though, for some clubs who, with an injury, or off field issues, where the make up of a playing squad could change at the drop of a hat. Just thinking, the way oyr squads changed so much in 2011 and 2015 during the season.

Due to injuries and suspensions how can you tell months in advance which players are going to be available
Posted by Big lads mate on Wed May 24, 2017 7:17 pm
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wrencat1873 wrote:
Just to pick up on the visa issues.
Frankly it's just mickey poor management.
The clubs know when the fixtures are happening and if they have players that cant travel, for whatever reason,
they need to plan around it.
Are we really saying that we shouldn't play overseas games because clubs cant organise their squad ??

What about work for the part timers, to get 3 week days off plus Saturday and Sunday is near on impossible. Last season York went to Toulouse with 15 players and one of them was Fordy. Level playing field :roll: more like Mount Pleasant.
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