Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:58 pm  

John_D wrote: Football365 I think Just seen an article on that site where kopcke the german goalkeeping coach says practicing them is pointless. http://www.football365.com/news/21554/7 ... ournament- But Kopke said: "It's near impossible to 'practise' penalty shootouts in training. "In training, players just whack it in and they do different things when it really counts. "It makes precious little sense to practise penalties during training." We are mentally weak.

John_D wrote: Football365 I think Just seen an article on that site where kopcke the german goalkeeping coach says practicing them is pointless. http://www.football365.com/news/21554/7 ... ournament- But Kopke said: "It's near impossible to 'practise' penalty shootouts in training. "In training, players just whack it in and they do different things when it really counts. "It makes precious little sense to practise penalties during training." We are mentally weak.

[John_D]

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:36 pm  

Wilbred T Pricklepop wrote: Just seen an article on that site where kopcke the german goalkeeping coach says practicing them is pointless. http://www.football365.com/news/21554/7 ... ournament- But Kopke said: "It's near impossible to 'practise' penalty shootouts in training. "In training, players just whack it in and they do different things when it really counts. "It makes precious little sense to practise penalties during training." We are mentally weak. That's where critical analysis of the penalty practice comes in and a structure to that practice, something addressed in the book 'On Penalties' (which I've just ordered) which was referenced in David Winner's excellent Brilliant Orange (which I've recently finished) where he discusses Dutch failures at penalties and brushing off each successive penalty defeat as bad luck, can't train for it, lottery etc etc etc. Far be it from me to disagree with a much-decorated goalkeeper like Kopke, I am going to do so anyway.

Wilbred T Pricklepop wrote: Just seen an article on that site where kopcke the german goalkeeping coach says practicing them is pointless. http://www.football365.com/news/21554/7 ... ournament- But Kopke said: "It's near impossible to 'practise' penalty shootouts in training. "In training, players just whack it in and they do different things when it really counts. "It makes precious little sense to practise penalties during training." We are mentally weak. That's where critical analysis of the penalty practice comes in and a structure to that practice, something addressed in the book 'On Penalties' (which I've just ordered) which was referenced in David Winner's excellent Brilliant Orange (which I've recently finished) where he discusses Dutch failures at penalties and brushing off each successive penalty defeat as bad luck, can't train for it, lottery etc etc etc. Far be it from me to disagree with a much-decorated goalkeeper like Kopke, I am going to do so anyway.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:42 pm  

There might not be a huge amount to be gained for the regular takers, but surely for a David Batty there must be some benefit? Simply knowing when they walk up "I'm going to hit it low to the right because that's what I've practised and that's my best penalty" must be one less thing to worry about?

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:53 pm  

Wilbred T Pricklepop wrote:

When was the last time we produced a midfielder with the technical ability and footballing brain of pirlo?

Just under 20 years ago. We ended up putting him on the left wing and going with the completely dysfunctional pairing of Gerrard and Lampard in the middle.

[John_D]

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:56 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

There might not be a huge amount to be gained for the regular takers, but surely for a David Batty there must be some benefit? Simply knowing when they walk up "I'm going to hit it low to the right because that's what I've practised and that's my best penalty" must be one less thing to worry about?

Exactly that. That has to be better than just hoping for the best.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:58 pm  

He can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
The problem lies much further back in the chain.

My son and grandson have been footballers at local level from being little lads and I have attended training sessions many a time.
I have seen a big emphasis on passing and moving and shooting.
I have never seen a coach say to the lads ''Right today, I will show you how to dribble.''
''Today I will show you how to trap and control a ball.''
''Today I will show you how to attack a corner ball, where to stand and when to run in.''
''Today I will show you just how to head a ball.''
''Today I will show you ways of tackling.''
Etc, etc............

It's assumed they will acquire these skills by osmosis.
By trial and error and by playing. Which they will, but it takes longer and inbuilt flaws become deep-set. A bit like a golfer that is self taught rather than coached by a pro.

You see them (coaches) instead doing zonal things with someone holding a clipboard and inviting them to take part in fairly meaningless routines and exercises.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:14 pm  

John_D wrote:

Exactly that. That has to be better than just hoping for the best.

We could take 20 perfect penalties.

.....Germany would take 21!

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:20 pm  

John_D wrote:

That's where critical analysis of the penalty practice comes in and a structure to that practice, something addressed in the book 'On Penalties' (which I've just ordered) which was referenced in David Winner's excellent Brilliant Orange (which I've recently finished) where he discusses Dutch failures at penalties and brushing off each successive penalty defeat as bad luck, can't train for it, lottery etc etc etc.
Far be it from me to disagree with a much-decorated goalkeeper like Kopke, I am going to do so anyway.

Personally

I think we'd stand a better chance of winning a penalty shootout if we didn't practice at all. If the manager and coaches never mentioned it, and the press never mentioned it. Then if it came down to a shootout the players would have to act on instinct.

Everytime we get to a major tournament it's always mentioned, we get to a knockout game and it's pretty much all anyone talks about.

This, plus practicing them in training builds tension and nerves. Players will wonder whether they'll be able to re-create that technique in the pressure situation. That then plays on their mind on the long walk to the spot.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:21 pm  

Wilbred T Pricklepop wrote:

We could take 20 perfect penalties.

.....Germany would take 21!

Surely that's cheating!

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:30 pm  

John_D wrote:

Exactly that. That has to be better than just hoping for the best.

If it was a case of practicing them we'd have won one of the 5 recent shootouts we've lost.

Are we really naive enough to think penalties were't practiced in 04? in 06? this year?

For me, practicing them can in itself creates pressure. Because it gives the players a specific technique in their memory bank that they are trying to re-create exactly.

You go in their without practicing, you decide probably as you step up what you are going to do and use your instict and ability as an international footballer to beat the keeper.