[DaveO]

Re: Tomkins exit confirmed : Mon May 14, 2018 12:27 pm  

Cruncher wrote:

Not having the figures to hand, how do you know that Sam was only asking the market rate?

Would you not at least consider that the French are being silly, probably because they are in desperate straits? Why is it always Wigan who are at fault?

Why are you even asking given what you say above has absolutely nothing to do with the points I was making in reply to JTB? His first point about the club being run as business and his second was about Tomkins form. Those are the points I was replying to . What the French are peperared to pay and why they may be was not what was being discussed.

[DaveO]

Re: Tomkins exit confirmed : Mon May 14, 2018 12:35 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

It has. But in comparison to Rads? Criticism is fair.

Rads is from a different era. I can remember posting on here about Rads great defence and how important I thought it was and being told that was now secondary in the modern day of the 1 who is really a 6 to justify Tomkins being moved to FB. While the glib answer is it would be good if the full back possessed both skills that wasn't or isn't the modern thinking in that the requirement for a Rads style full back is not there anymore. So I don't see how the criticism is fair if the role of the FB has changed.

Re: Tomkins exit confirmed : Mon May 14, 2018 12:49 pm  

DaveO wrote:

Rads is from a different era. I can remember posting on here about Rads great defence and how important I thought it was and being told that was now secondary in the modern day of the 1 who is really a 6 to justify Tomkins being moved to FB. While the glib answer is it would be good if the full back possessed both skills that wasn't or isn't the modern thinking in that the requirement for a Rads style full back is not there anymore. So I don't see how the criticism is fair if the role of the FB has changed.

Disagree. Criticism or comparison defensively is still very fair. The attacking game of a FB has changed, been developed for the better. But the defensive element is still the same. Arguably the defensive requirements of the FB is more important than any other position in the team, to disregard how Sam is defensively compared to Rads or any other FB is ignoring the defensive requirements of a FB.

Re: Tomkins exit confirmed : Mon May 14, 2018 1:01 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

I know it seems almost certain that Hardaker will be the replacement, but would it not be worth looking for a marquee 7 instead? I feel like overall I'd prefer:

1. Escare 7. Marquee 9. Leuluai 14. Powell (coming on at hooker)

to

1. Hardaker 7. Powell 9. Leuluai 14. Escare (coming on at scrum half, with Powell to hooker)

Escare is not good enough to play 7.

Re: Tomkins exit confirmed : Mon May 14, 2018 1:07 pm  

Sweaty Betty's wrote:

Escare is not good enough to play 7.

Or Fullback as a starting option.

Re: Tomkins exit confirmed : Mon May 14, 2018 1:10 pm  

Sweaty Betty's wrote:

Escare is not good enough to play 7.

Agreed, I don't see him as a 7 either, but I think bench 7 will be his role If we do get Hardaker

Re: Tomkins exit confirmed : Mon May 14, 2018 1:19 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Agreed, I don't see him as a 7 either, but I think bench 7 will be his role If we do get Hardaker

Escare as utility cover for me. Or sadly we see him leave. If we're striving to be the best we possibly can be, I don't think Escare makes the cut. Hardaker is a top top FB, it's his position with Escare as cover, similar to how he covers now.

As utility, I see his worth, can cover 1, 2/5, 6/7 and probably interchange 9. Players will always pick up injuries/suspensions throughout the course of a season.

Re: Tomkins exit confirmed : Mon May 14, 2018 2:24 pm  

Life after ST will be interesting and there’ll be lots of discussion before next season. We could be in for a complete overhaul if Gildart, Sutton & Bateman follow him out of the door.

Hardaker is a better FB than Escare and should not be moved to centre to accommodate Escare.

1 - Hardaker
6- Williams
7 - new marquee
9 - Leuluai (supported by Ganson)
13 - Lockers

It seems really harsh because I really like Escare but he is only a squad player with good pace. I hope he stays but I can’t see it. Likewise with Powell. He’s not good enough to be our 7 and isn’t good enough to be our starting 9. Both decent squad players but when compared to others in their positions, they’re not as good.

Re: Tomkins exit confirmed : Mon May 14, 2018 2:32 pm  

Bigredwarrior wrote:

Life after ST will be interesting and there’ll be lots of discussion before next season. We could be in for a complete overhaul if Gildart, Sutton & Bateman follow him out of the door.

Hardaker is a better FB than Escare and should not be moved to centre to accommodate Escare.

1 - Hardaker
6- Williams
7 - new marquee
9 - Leuluai (supported by Ganson)
13 - Lockers

It seems really harsh because I really like Escare but he is only a squad player with good pace. I hope he stays but I can’t see it. Likewise with Powell. He’s not good enough to be our 7 and isn’t good enough to be our starting 9. Both decent squad players but when compared to others in their positions, they’re not as good.

I agree that looks better, but do you think it's realistic for us to sign both Hardaker and a marquee?

[DaveO]

Re: Tomkins exit confirmed : Mon May 14, 2018 2:50 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

I agree that looks better, but do you think it's realistic for us to sign both Hardaker and a marquee?

I'd be very pleasantly surprised if we did get a marquee 7 but I can't see it for two reasons. First I would guess it's going to be at least as expensive as paying Tomkins what the club said it would in 2019 but welched on and it doesn't want to pay that kind of money. Secondly there is Wane's misplaced faith/loyalty in/to Powell who has the 7 shirt who was given a new improved deal at the start of this season.