Re: Have we lost our way in the search for innovation? : Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:01 pm  

Trainman wrote:

So injuries and players missing for Hull affected their performance yet all the injuries that we’ve suffered the past 2 seasons is not a valid reason for poor performances?

The lack of hard yards v Hull, Wire and Wakey (last game of last season) was with a pretty much first team pack. Electing to use the wingers as part of an exit set has nothing to do with injuries either, it's tactics.

Re: Have we lost our way in the search for innovation? : Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:29 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

What about the hard yards they were making compared to us before they had to rearrange their team? What about how their right edge was makeshift due to a head knock to a winger? Many factors effected Hull's performance that day, lose Danny Houghton was just one of them.

I’m sorry mate but you always seem to look for negatives, no matter what we do or how we play. The fact is, we beat Hull and beat them very well. You talk about them being disrupted and you’re right, they were. However, you don’t acknowledge how disrupted Wigan were the last 2 years, only stating that they are a poor side, playing poor rugby who are poorly coached. You can’t have it both ways.

There’s an awful lot of rugby to be played yet so let’s just see how things pan out. We played good rugby against Salford no matter how poor they may have been and we played some very good rugby against Hull. Warrington were better than us on Friday and might well have better better than us even if we hadn’t been to Australia. We’ll never know. Let’s just get behind the lads and hope that the shoots of promise shown in the first 2 games develop into a strong season!

Re: Have we lost our way in the search for innovation? : Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:42 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

I don't think line speed, tough D, forwards making hard yards is unsustainable. Do you? Or anything else which I mentioned in the original post.

I responded to someone else who said like under Madge.
I didn't say that those things were unsustainable, I said the training regime that sits behind Madges time at Wigan and South's has the potential to be unsustainable.

All those things are possible in many ways and different coaches have different methods.
There's nobody more behind our need for 2 x BIG outfits up front. I don't even think we need superstars.

An Andy lynch type of 5 years ago, Scott Taylor type etc.
Even a Paul Prescott style prop would do me now.

All 4 are 10/15 min type players and 3 of them are not natural props (maybe even Sutton style of play is more suited to back row?).
We need some 55/60 min type props.
20 hit ups a game and never mind fast play the balls, metres after contact dragging defenders in is something we need that we don't have (along with a hard running 6ft2 backrower).

Anyway, I posted on other site that Tony club was my big aggravation Friday. His performance first 25 was awful and then gives it the big un to wire forwards when scoring a pointless try with 20 secs to go.
I suppose he has a song for his name so some will be happy to keep him just for that.

Re: Have we lost our way in the search for innovation? : Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:49 pm  

Tony Clubb (and Joel) provides our only real aggression since we lost MM and I’m happy with his performances so far. I also think that we really missed Flower last season too and his efforts so far this year have been good. It’s Sutton, Isa and Tautai that need a rocket, not Clubb or Flower! I’d play Navarette and Hamlin against Widnes and sit Isa and Tautai out!

Re: Have we lost our way in the search for innovation? : Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:50 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

I responded to someone else who said like under Madge.
I didn't say that those things were unsustainable, I said the training regime that sits behind Madges time at Wigan and South's has the potential to be unsustainable.

All those things are possible in many ways and different coaches have different methods.
There's nobody more behind our need for 2 x BIG outfits up front. I don't even think we need superstars.

An Andy lynch type of 5 years ago, Scott Taylor type etc.
Even a Paul Prescott style prop would do me now.

All 4 are 10/15 min type players and 3 of them are not natural props (maybe even Sutton style of play is more suited to back row?).
We need some 55/60 min type props.
20 hit ups a game and never mind fast play the balls, metres after contact dragging defenders in.

Anyway, I posted on other site that Tony club was my big aggravation Friday. His performance first 25 was awful and then gives it the big un to wire forwards when scoring a pointless try with 20 secs to go.
I suppose he has a song for his name so some will be happy to keep him just for that.

I agree. I would take Hull's props in a heartbeat. We're not making the hard yards. I've also noticed how we approach our exit sets, NRL teams and some SL teams sent two props or a prop and a SR into motion with the 9 scooting or giving a quick short pass. Here the first prop receiver can take the ball in or offload a short pass to the accompanying prop or SR. It's little things like this which make the defence second guess the attack allowing more metres to be made. It's little adjustments like this which offer so much when making the hard yards.

I'd also like to see TT as a SR running a little further out wide.

Re: Have we lost our way in the search for innovation? : Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:43 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

I responded to someone else who said like under Madge.
I didn't say that those w were unsustainable, I said the training regime that sits behind Madges time at Wigan and South's has the potential to be unsustainable.

Undoubtedly Madges methods have a short shelf life. I believe he took what Bellamy did and cranked it up to the max you can. I'd be interested to see what his next move is. Will he have learned from it.

Having said that however Wane has arguably taken it just as much the other way. Some of our selections, style of play and recruitment baffle me.

Re: Have we lost our way in the search for innovation? : Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:02 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

I honestly don't know how good we were v Salford and more importantly Hull.

I don’t either and that’s why I think I need to give it until after that Cas game. We were bullied against Wakey and Cas last year and they have big packs. If we struggle in those two games then I think we’ll sadly be able to sit here and say things don’t look too promising. On the other hand if our energy is good and we move the ball about at pace and with some running options and the claim a couple of victories I’m sure we’ll all be far more optimistic.

It’s a really big few weeks for the general feel about the place.

Re: Have we lost our way in the search for innovation? : Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:07 pm  

Bigredwarrior wrote:

Tony Clubb (and Joel) provides our only real aggression since we lost MM and I’m happy with his performances so far. I also think that we really missed Flower last season too and his efforts so far this year have been good. It’s Sutton, Isa and Tautai that need a rocket, not Clubb or Flower! I’d play Navarette and Hamlin against Widnes and sit Isa and Tautai out!

Fully agree although I still think Clubb should be playing from the bench. He is an impact defender and he’s produced a couple of good try’s close to the opposition line but in the main his work rate carrying the ball isn’t high enough.

Navarette and Hamlin surely deserve a shot this week. I’m fed up of watching Tautai play at half pace now (when is he due another new contract) and Isa hasn’t started the season well, with his discipline being a major issue for me.

Re: Have we lost our way in the search for innovation? : Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:10 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Fully agree although I still think Clubb should be playing from the bench. He is an impact defender and he’s produced a couple of good try’s close to the opposition line but in the main his work rate carrying the ball isn’t high enough.

Navarette and Hamlin surely deserve a shot this week. I’m fed up of watching Tautai play at half pace now (when is he due another new contract) and Isa hasn’t started the season well, with his discipline being a major issue for me.

It does seem a bit much that we're pinning hopes on a lad yet to play any first team footy and a lad who didn't look interested last time out though doesn't it?

I cant disagree with you over Tautai or Isa but the club at best should have anticipated the FPN situation at the very least and not leaving the side a little raw shall we say and had a replacement brought in before it or as it happened

Re: Have we lost our way in the search for innovation? : Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:10 am  

Maguire never got Souths to play a particularly expansive style - for long periods of his tenure they were not that entertaining, with the focus being more on brute force than anything else. To be fair to him that was partly a function of the players he had - a top form Inglis, George Burgess on fire and Sam Burgess playing like a man possessed for what he thought was his last season in RL.

I think his style was a bit too basic to last long-term as it required some physical beasts to be at the top of their form to work, and once the wheels fell off they did so big time. It has to be said as well though that the Storm have only been able to play the way they do because they've had Slater, Cronk and Smith as the spine of their side for a decade. Once Slater and Smith go it'll be very interesting to see how the Storm go.