Re: Wakefield : Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:02 am  

[quote="JWarriors"]I will start this off by saying that I think you look really good this year, and I think you may come away with the victory on Sunday.

But now to contradict my previous statement ( ) , I can only think of 3/4 players of yours who would get into the Wigan 13.
They would be Johnstone, Tupou, Fifita, and maybe Miller (depending on whether Wigan have Escare at full back with Tomkins in the halves or not.

I’d be interested to see which players to think match/better ours if I gave what I thought to be our strongest 13.

Escaré/Tomkins
Davies
Sarginson
Gildart
Burgess
Williams
Tomkins/Powell
Clubb
Leuluai
Flower
Bateman
Farrell
O’Loughlin[/quote

Finn over Powell given escare tends to start off the bench
Randall over Leulai
Ashhurst over Farrell
England over Flower
Plus the ones you mention for sarginson, burgess and club (not included Miller)

That’s before we look at the bench where I think we have some real strength with Pauli huby Hirst and wood

Obviously it’s only my opinion and I am very biased

Re: Wakefield : Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:55 am  

JWarriors wrote:

I will start this off by saying that I think you look really good this year, and I think you may come away with the victory on Sunday.

But now to contradict my previous statement ( ) , I can only think of 3/4 players of yours who would get into the Wigan 13.
They would be Johnstone, Tupou, Fifita, and maybe Miller (depending on whether Wigan have Escare at full back with Tomkins in the halves or not.

I’d be interested to see which players to think match/better ours if I gave what I thought to be our strongest 13.

Escaré/Tomkins
Davies
Sarginson
Gildart
Burgess
Williams
Tomkins/Powell
Clubb
Leuluai
Flower
Bateman
Farrell
O’Loughlin

I agree. If I were Wigan, I wouldn't bother looking towards Wakefield for recruitment. Not ever. No need to even glance. Johnstone? Show-pony. I wouldn't bother.

Re: Wakefield : Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:57 am  

JWarriors wrote:

I will start this off by saying that I think you look really good this year, and I think you may come away with the victory on Sunday.

But now to contradict my previous statement ( ) , I can only think of 3/4 players of yours who would get into the Wigan 13.
They would be Johnstone, Tupou, Fifita, and maybe Miller (depending on whether Wigan have Escare at full back with Tomkins in the halves or not.

I’d be interested to see which players to think match/better ours if I gave what I thought to be our strongest 13.

Escaré/Tomkins
Davies
Sarginson
Gildart
Burgess
Williams
Tomkins/Powell
Clubb
Leuluai
Flower
Bateman
Farrell
O’Loughlin

Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of these are too close to call in that they cancel each other out. I think because we only see our own side the majority of the time it does lend a bit of bias. Also we have to take into account that I think sometimes more credence is given to players in teams like Wigan because they're fashionable. They are seen as stars because they play for traditionally a massive rugby league club which is a testament to them. They are obviously good players. However, that said, you have got to go on the form of the players over the last 12 months and what they have done on the field.

Wakefield beat Wigan 2 out of 3 times last season and also finished above them in the table. This would suggest that Wakefield on the whole over the last 12 months have better players on a man to man basis.

Here's my thoughts man for man:

Tomkins - Quality player in the past... seems to have started well this year but has he been better than Grix (who has been immense for Wakefield right up until yesterday)? Probably not but he is a ore "fashionable" player. But why would I pick him over a player who hasn't put a foot wrong?

Davies/Burgess/Marshall - Johnstone is better than all 3 and I'd say MCB and BJB are just as good as them as well. Close to call.

Gildart - Really like him and I think he'd get in the Wakefield side over Lyne/Arundel (two players who haven't let us down as well may I add!)

Sarginson - Bit of an unknown as regards current form as went to Australia but like you say, I'd take Tupou as I think Tupou is one of the best centres in the league at the minute.

Williams - Again, fashionable player. Had an excellent season a couple of seasons ago - last year he wasn't all that. If he plays to the best of his ability then yes I'd have him over Finn but Finn has an advantage over Williams upstairs. He's got a better rugby brain and he controls a game better than Williams. Has Williams been better than Finn for the last 12 months? As someone who sees Finn week in week out and sees Williams whenever he is on telly - I'd doubt he has been.

Leuluai/Escare - Are either better than Miller? No. Escare I quite like but he hasn't been as good as Miller.

Powell - I'd rather have Kyle Wood or Tyler Randall any day tbh. I don't rate Powell at all.

Bateman - He would get in our side as he is better than Horo/Kirmond

Farrell - Again, a fashionable name but has he been better than Matty Ashurst? No. I'd take Ashurst all day long.

Clubb - I like Clubb but he doesn't play big minutes and Fifita is a far better Prop.

Flower - Is he really any better than Huby or England or Fifita or Pauli Pauli? Again, pretty evenly matched here in terms of quality in my opinion.

O'Loughlin - Quality player - misses a lot of games. Probably not the player he was a few years ago? Tinirau Arona plays loose for us atm. Arona made 50 odd tackles against Catalan last week - 2 interchanges down - he missed zero of those. O'Loughlin is the fashionable Rugby League name but again when it comes to it - on current form is he miles better than Arona? Not for me. It's a close one.

Where Wigan do have the upper hand is there depth and the conveyor belt of youngsters they have that are of a quality standard. Even in that department Wakefield are catching up bringing through the likes of Jowitt, Batchelor, Crowther in recent years and Luke Hooley on the fringes this year with Ackroyd.

So, I know Wigan have some big names that have done well in the past but currently are they much better man for man than their Wakefield counterparts? I only see a handful of Wigan players where I would without hesitation be willing to put them in the Wakefield team at the expense of a current Wakefield player.

We will now get beat 52-0 on Sunday and I'll look like an idiot. No change there then

Re: Wakefield : Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:01 am  

Adam_Harrison9 wrote:

I would firstly like to say that I've always enjoyed Wakefield v Wigan games. I used to really like Wigan when I was younger (I'd say that has changed over time but hey ). As a Wakefield fan, I have some fond memories of us vs Wigan. I was there when we narrowly lost out in the semi-finals of the playoffs to you guys at the JJB. I was also there at the JJB lasts eason when Tupou scored his hattrick. I was there when Poore punched Farrell and I had to watch us play with 12 men and I was also there when we beat you by 62. That said, I think next Sunday's game will be that of 2 top 4 contenders and I think it is the first time I will be attending a Wakefield v Wigan game where I genuinely think we can come away with the win. I didn't think that before all the other games. It is also a game where I think man for man we match you or better you from 1 to 13. I've never said that against a Wigan team before.

My head says home advantage may result in a Wigan win by a try. I'm going to go for a 28-20 Wigan victory and a thoroughly entertaining game. To the Wigan fan slating the club about the stadium: leave it out if you don't know what you're talking about.

As much as I’ve said I’d have you as favourites, I wouldn’t get carried away with talk of you being at least even/better in every position. It may be evens across the spread of the full 17 of both sides but thats a fair stretch.

In saying that this Wakefield team is very strong and really well balanced. It’s not just about individuals on paper and you’ve built that side well over a couple of years.

Re: Wakefield : Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:47 am  

Regardless of how much we measure our squads against each other, it will come down to team work, form and ultimately discipline...who ever wants it more on Sunday will come away with the points. If we give Wakefield penalties Finn will kick us all over the place. If we keep it together it will be a really tight game, I for one am glad we have the full seven day recovery before Cas the following week, we will have some tired bodies.

I like Chris Chester a lot, always have. He is a fantastic coach and a very, very shrewd man-manager...Wakefield are in safe hands with him.

Re: Wakefield : Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:27 am  

Adam_Harrison9 wrote:

Here's my thoughts man for man:

Tomkins - Quality player in the past... seems to have started well this year but has he been better than Grix (who has been immense for Wakefield right up until yesterday)? Probably not but he is a ore "fashionable" player. But why would I pick him over a player who hasn't put a foot wrong?

Davies/Burgess/Marshall - Johnstone is better than all 3 and I'd say MCB and BJB are just as good as them as well. Close to call.

Gildart - Really like him and I think he'd get in the Wakefield side over Lyne/Arundel (two players who haven't let us down as well may I add!)

Sarginson - Bit of an unknown as regards current form as went to Australia but like you say, I'd take Tupou as I think Tupou is one of the best centres in the league at the minute.

Williams - Again, fashionable player. Had an excellent season a couple of seasons ago - last year he wasn't all that. If he plays to the best of his ability then yes I'd have him over Finn but Finn has an advantage over Williams upstairs. He's got a better rugby brain and he controls a game better than Williams. Has Williams been better than Finn for the last 12 months? As someone who sees Finn week in week out and sees Williams whenever he is on telly - I'd doubt he has been.

Leuluai/Escare - Are either better than Miller? No. Escare I quite like but he hasn't been as good as Miller.

Powell - I'd rather have Kyle Wood or Tyler Randall any day tbh. I don't rate Powell at all.

Bateman - He would get in our side as he is better than Horo/Kirmond

Farrell - Again, a fashionable name but has he been better than Matty Ashurst? No. I'd take Ashurst all day long.

Clubb - I like Clubb but he doesn't play big minutes and Fifita is a far better Prop.

Flower - Is he really any better than Huby or England or Fifita or Pauli Pauli? Again, pretty evenly matched here in terms of quality in my opinion.

O'Loughlin - Quality player - misses a lot of games. Probably not the player he was a few years ago? Tinirau Arona plays loose for us atm. Arona made 50 odd tackles against Catalan last week - 2 interchanges down - he missed zero of those. O'Loughlin is the fashionable Rugby League name but again when it comes to it - on current form is he miles better than Arona? Not for me. It's a close one.

I can see some of your reasonings, but I definitely stay with my previous judgement.

Grix is a solid player, but in reality, even if Tomkins hasn't got back to his previous heights, he's still a very very good player, even if he isn't the best attacking player in the comp by a mile like he used to be.

Completely disagree with the wingers argument. I'd take Johnstone, fantastic player, but after that I think MCB and BJB would be 5th and 6th choice wingers behind all 4 of ours (Davies, Manfredi, Burgess and Marshall.

I admit Randall is a bit of an unknown to me, but no way Wood would be ahead of Leuluai or Powell at Hooker for me.

Regards Williams, I agree he can be a bit hit and miss mainly due to his controlling of the game (not his strong point), but despite last year 'not being his best' he was still the leading assist maker in the entire league, and scored a few tries to boot, his defence is also pretty good for a half.

Farrell isn't a fashion player at all for me. He runs the best lines for a second row that I've seen in a long time, plus he's very quick for a second row too. He also has a great engine, the only criticism of him would be he gives away too many penalties. Ashurst was very good last year, but I still would find it difficult to find any second row in super league that I'd want to swap for Farrell.

And finally, Arona does look like an absolutely brilliant player and I would like him at Wigan (as an interchange). But O'Loughlin is becoming so underrated by fans of other clubs (I assume mainly due to his age and recent relatively poor injury record). But when he plays, he is the best/most important player in the Wigan team, and for me is still the best loose forward in super league. He's certainly the most important player to a single team in the league, as last year without him we played 8 and lost 8. With him we player 22 and only lost 4.
Even when he plays, we don't seem to concede points when he is on the field, but when he is interchanged we seem to fall apart. It's the way he links the play in attack as well as puts in the big hits in defence.
It's just a shame that his age seems to be catching up with him regarding injuries, as I'd rather have a 30 year old O'Loughlin again, rather than sign just about anybody else.

As you pointed out though, these types of comparisons are quite often difficult, as I only watch Wakefield when they're on the TV or when they play Wigan, and I assume you only see Wigan on the TV or when they play Wakefield. So other than looking at stats (which helps but doesn't always tell the whole picture) you don't always understand quite how good, or important a player is to a team unless you watch them all the time.

Re: Wakefield : Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:16 am  

Who will be reffing on Sunday SoL or Sam ?

Re: Wakefield : Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:43 am  

I would hesitate to make any brash and over-confident statements as a WT fan; we've won our first 4, which is great, but Wigan will be our sternest test to date - and despite not being anywhere near as good as recent years, I'm cognisant of the quality of individual players, and the team ethic - so my hope is a competitive match, and if we lose, we lose a close and evenly fought contest.

I will of course look forward to the introduction of Agent Tautai; as WT fans, we are painfully familiar with the fact that although he's a lovely lad and full of running, he is unfortunately cursed with the affliction of having hands like pigs t1ts.

Re: Wakefield : Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:03 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Who will be reffing on Sunday SoL or Sam ?

I hope both, we may need it the way you lot are playing

Re: Wakefield : Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:15 pm  

Next two weeks will tell us where we are in the scheme of things this season, let's be honest, Wakey and Cas have smashed us for the last couple of seasons.
Best performance of the season required to get anything on Sunday, forwards are going to have to stand up, discipline needs to be spot on and the backs need to be switched on, yep Gildart and Williams I'm looking at you.