Re: Right centre : Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:45 am  

Grimmy wrote:

Unfortunately there isn't a stat for 'unforced errors'. I'm sure you will agree that a knock on from a hard grubber to the opponent's in goal, or a bullet pass near the try line, isn't the same as dropping a kick or pass in your own half under no pressure. Yet both are marked the same in the stats. It's these unforced errors where Marshall is more risky than Burgess IMO.

Having said that, I also would pick Marshall ahead of Burgess at present, because he offers so much more than him in attack at the moment, both in terms of try scoring ability, and hard yards coming out of our own half. I don't know if Burgess is carrying a knock but he just hasn't looked the same player since early last year.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Marshall for me is the best try scorer/finisher we have at Wigan the moment. Even though he is scoring at the moment, very few of his tries are just flops over the line. He is burning other wingers for pace, the way he went round Shaul and Connor was hilarious.

He certainly deserves to start ahead of Burgess at the moment, who for me, looks a little unfit and slower than he used to be.
Davies is also great, but for me also has the problem of making the odd error. However, both are young players and still have plenty of improvement in them (same as Burgess).

Re: Right centre : Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:40 pm  

JWarriors wrote:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Marshall for me is the best try scorer/finisher we have at Wigan the moment. Even though he is scoring at the moment, very few of his tries are just flops over the line. He is burning other wingers for pace, the way he went round Shaul and Connor was hilarious.

He certainly deserves to start ahead of Burgess at the moment, who for me, looks a little unfit and slower than he used to be.
Davies is also great, but for me also has the problem of making the odd error. However, both are young players and still have plenty of improvement in them (same as Burgess).

100% even if Marshall didn't have the finishing attributes that he clearly does, he should start before JB simply because of his pride and desire to play for the club. Same goes for Davies.

Re: Right centre : Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:59 pm  

JWarriors wrote:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Marshall for me is the best try scorer/finisher we have at Wigan the moment. Even though he is scoring at the moment, very few of his tries are just flops over the line. He is burning other wingers for pace, the way he went round Shaul and Connor was hilarious.

He certainly deserves to start ahead of Burgess at the moment, who for me, looks a little unfit and slower than he used to be.
Davies is also great, but for me also has the problem of making the odd error. However, both are young players and still have plenty of improvement in them (same as Burgess).

I worry for and about Marshall. His pace is his strength but not much else in reality. He's finding the try line with pace burning players, it's a joy to watch, but attack and burning players for pace is only part of what makes a good winger. He often makes simple unforced errors, knock ons/dropping the ball off kick offs etc. But my main concern is his defence, with tackling (especially one on one) and under the highball. I believe he's only a game or two away from being exposed by a big strong opposite winger.

I hope I'm wrong, but I feel his opposite winger (v hull) getting injured early on was a blessing for Marshall. He didn't have to face a big strong winger, instead he faced a patched up right side which wasn't communicating effectively allowing us to run a mock down their flank.

I think people are seeing his pace and tries, being wowed and not fully paying attention to his all round game.

Re: Right centre : Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:19 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

I worry for and about Marshall. His pace is his strength but not much else in reality. He's finding the try line with pace burning players, it's a joy to watch, but attack and burning players for pace is only part of what makes a good winger. He often makes simple unforced errors, knock ons/dropping the ball off kick offs etc. But my main concern is his defence, with tackling (especially one on one) and under the highball. I believe he's only a game or two away from being exposed by a big strong opposite winger.

I hope I'm wrong, but I feel his opposite winger (v hull) getting injured early on was a blessing for Marshall. He didn't have to face a big strong winger, instead he faced a patched up right side which wasn't communicating effectively allowing us to run a mock down their flank.

I think people are seeing his pace and tries, being wowed and not fully paying attention to his all round game.

Give me the pace of Marshall any day of the week before a trundling 16 stone bonehead.
It appears to me that Marshall maybe lacks self confidence and when he does make a mistake it does seem to effect him quite badly. I would like to think that the backroom staff are working with the lad on this and on defence which I accept (particularly under a high ball) he can be suspect at times.

For whatever reason any mistakes by Marshall seem to be picked up by everyone (myself included) and magnified however, every player makes mistakes during a game but very little is mentioned when TL, ST, Gildart or Davies make pretty basic errors.

Re: Right centre : Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:45 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Give me the pace of Marshall any day of the week before a trundling 16 stone bonehead.
It appears to me that Marshall maybe lacks self confidence and when he does make a mistake it does seem to effect him quite badly. I would like to think that the backroom staff are working with the lad on this and on defence which I accept (particularly under a high ball) he can be suspect at times.

For whatever reason any mistakes by Marshall seem to be picked up by everyone (myself included) and magnified however, every player makes mistakes during a game but very little is mentioned when TL, ST, Gildart or Davies make pretty basic errors.

I'm not comparing him to Joe Burgess or any other player, I'm looking at him as a player and what I see. I'm also impressed by his attack (pace) but concerned about other elements of his overall game.

Re: Right centre : Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:37 pm  

Marshall reminds me a little of Shaun Aincough

Re: Right centre : Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:30 pm  

Tricky Dicky wrote:

:BLAH: Marshall reminds me a little of Shaun Aincough

What I was going to say, apart from adding that he's a much better version if him.

Re: Right centre : Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:45 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Unfortunately there isn't a stat for 'unforced errors'. I'm sure you will agree that a knock on from a hard grubber to the opponent's in goal, or a bullet pass near the try line, isn't the same as dropping a kick or pass in your own half under no pressure. Yet both are marked the same in the stats. It's these unforced errors where Marshall is more risky than Burgess IMO.

Having said that, I also would pick Marshall ahead of Burgess at present, because he offers so much more than him in attack at the moment, both in terms of try scoring ability, and hard yards coming out of our own half. I don't know if Burgess is carrying a knock but he just hasn't looked the same player since early last year.

I fully agree. It isn’t as simple as a stat but it gives you an idea that the two of them probably come up with more then you’d hope for.

The one area I always feel a little let down with by Burgess (aside from work rate) is him catching high balls to the corner. He should be a beast but it’s a sign of those errors that he rarely seems to grab one (Mahic game aside).

Re: Right centre : Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:38 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Give me the pace of Marshall any day of the week before a trundling 16 stone bonehead.
It appears to me that Marshall maybe lacks self confidence and when he does make a mistake it does seem to effect him quite badly. I would like to think that the backroom staff are working with the lad on this and on defence which I accept (particularly under a high ball) he can be suspect at times.

For whatever reason any mistakes by Marshall seem to be picked up by everyone (myself included) and magnified however, every player makes mistakes during a game but very little is mentioned when TL, ST, Gildart or Davies make pretty basic errors.

I find myself thinking the opposite about Marshall. For me one of his redeeming features is he doesn't lack self confidence and makes up for mistakes better than most, particularly Burgess, who I consider to be pretty much exactly what you think about Marshall.

I'm pretty sure Marshall's debut saw him have a bit of a mare dealing with kicks, only to finish the game strongly and go from strength to strength and have a really good season. Marshall has dropped a few kicks but he's also taken some belting catches too. Even in the academy his determination stood out and when he makes mistakes he often makes up for them.

Conversely, if Budgie makes a big mistake he seems to struggle from that point on. Early in his final season he was dropping the ball all the time and it seemed he needed to play on dual reg to regain his confidence. That seemed to happen and he came back strong. Then he struggled at Roosters and only seemed to get some confidence at the Rabbitohs. For me Budgie is the best example of a confidence player. He often seems nervous, whereas Marshall doesn't seem to let his head drop.

Both players are error prone although without stats I'm only guessing but I'd say Budgie makes more errors than Marshall, and that Davies rarely makes errors (but has made more than usual this season).

Either way, I'd go with Burgess against Wire because he's the only player on our left capable of competing with Atkins for cross field kicks. Farrell, Williams and Gildart have always been vulnerable to cross field kicks that drop short of the winger but a bit of vision in defence and Burgess could position himself further in field and snuff that tactic out.

Re: Right centre : Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:00 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

I worry for and about Marshall. His pace is his strength but not much else in reality. He's finding the try line with pace burning players, it's a joy to watch, but attack and burning players for pace is only part of what makes a good winger. He often makes simple unforced errors, knock ons/dropping the ball off kick offs etc. But my main concern is his defence, with tackling (especially one on one) and under the highball. I believe he's only a game or two away from being exposed by a big strong opposite winger.

I hope I'm wrong, but I feel his opposite winger (v hull) getting injured early on was a blessing for Marshall. He didn't have to face a big strong winger, instead he faced a patched up right side which wasn't communicating effectively allowing us to run a mock down their flank.

I think people are seeing his pace and tries, being wowed and not fully paying attention to his all round game.

I heard a lot of people saying protect Marshall pre Hull game from this new winger they’ve signed and you say it’s a blessing he was injured but in truth I’ve never heard of him and he doesn’t look particularly big when I have seen him. He may be a good player and he may be strong but he’s yet to cut much of a career at the top level and I don’t think Marshall has that many deficiencies that we need to start worrying about unknown quantities on the off chance they’ve bagged another Fonua.

Marshall has things to work on without doubt but he more then warrants a spot at the minute imo.