fleabag wrote:
So what is it your actually saying, as your giving out mixed messages now ?
You said "Of our 17 I would fancy say 12 to have some chance 2/ on the subject of quality. If GB were having a test series/ world cup end of this year how many of our starting 17 (im including Bateman for Isa in this scenario) would fancy their chances and have a shot or one eye at getting Into say a 25/26 man squad?".
And I replied we only had 3 at the last World Cup a few months ago. And one of them was Williams, who is standing still and not progressing on the field. So how the rest of the numbers of players you mention have improved over the close season so much, to me is an impossibility.
I think that too many of our players are mediocre. And that is why Bennett only picked three of our squad and of those, Williams at the moment isn't international standard IMHO.
I am a realist, and note you use the word 'hope' very often in your writings. Thats' fair enough mate if it works for you. I also 'hope' we progress forcefully this season, but I cannot for the life of me see where these radical changes in play and tactics are going to come from. I hope I will win the lottery (like millions of others), but the chances of that are really very unlikely.
We have played some dire stuff of late, especially the last two seasons. How Wane can say it was just a few games at the 'back end' of last season, I cannot imagine. Perhaps he falls asleep during games like the great Jim Sullivan did when he was the coach for Rochdale Hornets many years ago, as he was that bored ?
I actually feel sorry for Wane has he has done much better IMHO than I thought he would. Particularly with a diminishing quality in the squad over his tenure since he took over from 'Madge'.. He has had to 'coach' with one arm tied behind his back. I am sure that year on year, he has been given nowt to spend on trying to improve squad quality. It must be soul destroying for him, to never have any funds to sign players. And this is the mighty Wigan we are talking about. And in my opinion, it is that very 'hamstringing' that could be the very downfall of Wanes tenure as coach at Wigan .
Why am I giving out Mixed messages?
I said that I think 12 of our first 17 would either have a real big chance or one eye on a GB/England Touring squad meaning I think there's some decent quality out there. There's no mixed message there? I didn't say on one hand there's 12 and then 2 minutes later say there's 1 or 2?
You said you were old enough to remember Wigan supplying a Much larger number of players, I said I'm old enough to remember Wigan supplying almost Zero players - Is that not true?
As for me using the Word Hope a lot
Re-read about 6 of my posts that to be honest some of which were that long I bored myself reading and I think I've used it 3 x times?
Considering that's 6 posts on 2 threads one of which was critiquing the best part of 30 players I don't think that's excessive and Yes there is an element of "Hope" to some of the issues we have with some players.
I bet Saints fans "Hope" Barba settles in and plays better than back end of last year
I bet Wolfs fans "Hope" that some of their new signings settle in well & other established players they "Hope" perform better then last year etc.
I Bet every fan of every club "Hopes" certain things in relation to their players and their club?
That's no bad thing is it?
On Top of the 3 that went you can bet Farrell/Tomkins/Budgie & possibly even Gildart would be considered unlucky or close to selection whilst Davies I think the tournament came just 12months to early.
Williams may not be Happy with his own performances but I'd have a Wager that come October this year he will be at the forefront of any England/GB coaches thoughts?
As for the financial aspect of your reply I Agree to some extent however this has to be tempered by Wane/IFL's obvious plan of using the youth/academy etc. to bring talent through and then rewarding those players with first team Wages in line of not better than most clubs.
Surely this is a good thing? A sustainable conveyor belt of talent rather than relying on spending big bucks that we may not have, we've been there a couple of times before and it didn't end up too well. Certainly at Wigan & throughout the league owners have come in like Big Dave did early 00's & they couldn't splash the cash at 3/4 big name players and then consistently compete and win things as the squads weren't big enough (Bearing in mind when we did it early 00's and had a bit of success we had special cap dispensation etc. and even Wigan had to "Lose" players like Henry Paul/Andy Farrell/Jason Robinson etc. in an era where the game as a Whole wasn't as far behind as union & NRL as it is now).
I'm sure most clubs would look now and say that there "Top 5/6" players aren't of the superstar class they were say 10+years ago (Cas apart I reckon but that would have more to do with how bad they may have been then not how good they are now).
That is not isolated to Wigan
I've seen a lot of talk about the Sydney game/s & previous other initiatives - one thing I try to consider is that any potential money made out of these trips contributes to the club and it's success moving forward.
If we don't take the money on offer from Oz for these games (I'm not privy to numbers but heard Wigan will be making 6 figure sums) then that money which will be used to pay players wages, investment in Youth & Backroom staff etc. & if we don't take the opportunity it will have to come from somewhere else?
Higher season ticket prices? (I think they are fantastic value for money currently)
Less players wages? (Most people are saying they want to attract more/better players, not sure how we can do this paying less?)
Less investment in Youth & Infrastructure (Surely everyone would agree this would not be a good thing?)
IFL putting his hand in his pocket even more than he does now (I don't think he's a Guy who's willing to throw his whole fortune at us but he's investing significantly IMO and has shown that he's prepared to buy players when needed Smith/Taylor/Bateman/Sam T and is underwriting the money we've lost last couple of years etc.)
I am Chairman of 1 & Run 2 x Sporting organisations/Businesses in Wigan that were previously under performing and struggling on various levels so I do have a bit of Empathy when it comes to understanding things as the view point and thought processes of Owners/Managers/Directors etc. can often be different to that of Fans.
Although often frustrating as it's very hard to effect change as a Fan but What I can say is that being a Fan is a lot easier & Simple
As an administrator there are often uncomfortable decisions that may not please players/Parents/Members etc. but you reap your rewards over the Long Run, not just today.
I feel Wigan and IFL are doing that, although not perfectly and I am sure they would tweak things, and the club will continue to move forward and compete.
