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Posted by DaveO on Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:31 pm
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Itchy Arsenal wrote:
Don't get me wrong I would rather have ST or Escare at half before Powell but you can just see Powell getting the nod.
I think SW believes he got "burned" in 2012 when we played some cracking rugby but failed to win wither the GF or CC despite winning the hub cap and since then we have gone more and more conservative with our attack with each passing year.


But at the end of last season and in the off season much of the talk from him has been acknowledging the attack was naff and what he was going to do about it. If he goes with the conservative selection he is even ignoring himself!

To be honest unless the pack steps up drastically I cant see any significant improvement in our overall display irrespective who plays at 6 or 7. ST at half would certainly improve the organisation but unless he has options and forwards running for him even he will be limited as to how he can improve things.


Part of the attraction of Sam at 6 or 7 is the experience he brings because despite the fact Powell is 25 and has a fair few games under his belt I still class him as inexperienced and not a player able to help Williams or take a load off Williams back. As to the forwards I think they look poor in part due to Wane's tactics. When you watch FPN he goes to ground quickly after contact to try and get quick PTB's so when people say he doesn't look much like a wrecking ball it is, IMO, because he is being told not to be one. There is nothing wrong with going for the quick PTB when the game situation warrants it but our players are like robots and stick to the plan regardless.
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Posted by Itchy Arsenal on Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:18 pm
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DaveO wrote:
But at the end of last season and in the off season much of the talk from him has been acknowledging the attack was naff and what he was going to do about it. If he goes with the conservative selection he is even ignoring himself!

Part of the attraction of Sam at 6 or 7 is the experience he brings because despite the fact Powell is 25 and has a fair few games under his belt I still class him as inexperienced and not a player able to help Williams or take a load off Williams back. As to the forwards I think they look poor in part due to Wane's tactics. When you watch FPN he goes to ground quickly after contact to try and get quick PTB's so when people say he doesn't look much like a wrecking ball it is, IMO, because he is being told not to be one. There is nothing wrong with going for the quick PTB when the game situation warrants it but our players are like robots and stick to the plan regardless.

I agree with a lot of your comments but I just have a feeling that SW will go with Powell at 7 as this is the "safer" route and ST has stated that he wants to play FB.

All the talk about changes after the 2017 season I just think wont happen. If you watch the interviews on Wigan TV SW believes that a CC final (even though we didn't turn up as a team or supporters) and WCC was successful which to a degree I understand however, the style of play is slowly killing the support so unless IL has given SW the go ahead to entertain then I just see another season of poor "rugby".

I don't rate any of our props with perhaps the exception of Sutton who I think could become a good prop. Even if we do change tactics I just don't think that our props are good enough.

Hopefully I am being grossly pessimistic and we will see ST in the halves & the forwards have under performed rather than it being a lack of ability in the last few seasons and a successful season awaits us.
Posted by Pie Eyed on Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:56 am
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Itchy Arsenal wrote:
I agree with a lot of your comments but I just have a feeling that SW will go with Powell at 7 as this is the "safer" route and ST has stated that he wants to play FB.

All the talk about changes after the 2017 season I just think wont happen. If you watch the interviews on Wigan TV SW believes that a CC final (even though we didn't turn up as a team or supporters) and WCC was successful which to a degree I understand however, the style of play is slowly killing the support so unless IL has given SW the go ahead to entertain then I just see another season of poor "rugby".

I don't rate any of our props with perhaps the exception of Sutton who I think could become a good prop. Even if we do change tactics I just don't think that our props are good enough.

Hopefully I am being grossly pessimistic and we will see ST in the halves & the forwards have under performed rather than it being a lack of ability in the last few seasons and a successful season awaits us.


Sadly, I think your pessimism is fully warranted.

The absolute minimum that we needed after the "performances" for the back half of last season, was an attacking coach for the backs, to (finally) replace Paul Deacon/Iestyn Harris.

We have done bugger all about that, and I suspect that we are expecting Leuluai to fulfil that role - Well, he didn't do it last season, and I don't expect any more from him this year.

I think we are in for even worse than last year - At least we won some silverware before the rot set in. This year, I foresee nothing but slow, boring rugby, with little end-product, which could well see us scrapping to stay in the top 8.

OK, we have had just a little coaching in kicking, but unless this RU guy is also teaching the halves some new tricks for the attack, I honestly don't see us finishing in the top 4 again this year.

I have never been this blazé or negative going in to a season before and, whilst I have retained our season tickets, I have almost zero excitement about it - It feels like a duty, rather than a pleasure.

I really hope I'm wrong, and SW will set the team loose, with Sam back in the halves and Escare at FB, and that we see some of the flare return...... But who am I kidding? More of the same - Plod, wrestle, kick (poorly) and repeat.
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Posted by exiled Warrior on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:43 am
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Intereting stuff from Rads re the Mick Mac / Gells departures

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... -1-8949792
Posted by DaveO on Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:30 am
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exiled Warrior wrote:
Intereting stuff from Rads re the Mick Mac / Gells departures

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... -1-8949792


Think the comments about MM are a joke and is just the clubs side of the story. He cites age when his replacement is three years older and form from a player coming back from a broken ankle when plenty of the rest of the team had poor form last season. It's obvious MM looked for a chance to play in Oz but when that fell through he wasn't going anywhere until the club told him he ought to look at going to Les Cats. You don't point players you want to keep towards the exit door so when MM said it was made plain his future lay elsewhere now you know what he meant.

The biggest revelation though is how much we pay in wages. £2.2m for that squad? :shock: Very poor value for money IMO. I know IL when he arrived was unhappy about a small number of players taking up a large chunk of the cap and I also remember Rads mentioning Leeds have a pay structure where players progress up a pay scale that Wigan were looking at doing similar. Well it looks to me like such automatic pay rises have led to far too many average players being paid too much and a massive wage bill.
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Posted by Wigg'n on Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:37 am
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According to MM yesterday he didn't want to go to Aus because of his dogs(?), and that was a genuine reason.
Posted by DaveO on Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:00 pm
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Wigg'n wrote:
According to MM yesterday he didn't want to go to Aus because of his dogs(?), and that was a genuine reason.


I can believe that. Not a dog lover myself but we have friends who are and the way they treat the things better than some of the human members of the family never ceases to amaze me :)
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Posted by Shifty Cat on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:48 pm
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NickyKiss wrote:
Define stand out?

If you mean he shows talent that sets him apart from his peers then surely a young player of the year award in 2016 does that. Also in a pretty poor season overall (where I’d agree he wasn’t a stand out performer for over half of it) he managed 11 try’s and a league high of 29 assists. The lads who took all the plaudits in Gale, Kelly and Sneyd managed 13/20, 19/14 and 7/18 respectively. It isn’t all about try’s and assists of course but it’s a major factor and when you add in his superb defence and line breaking ability I think you do have a player that sets himself apart from the majority of superleague halfs.

Is he good enough for the NRL? With the right partner I’d say undoubtedly but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Hate to be pedantic mate but GW got it in 2015, it was Tom Johnstone in 2016. :wink:

On Williams, I personally think he's a cracking player, yes he still has parts of his game to work on, like Kicking but give him a pack that can make plenty of yards and he will shine behind them and he's still only 23.
Posted by BrisbaneRhino on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:20 am
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The 'he's only 23' line is a copout, as is the idea of needing a winning pack to play well (obviously it helps). Compare Williams' skill with the likes of Mitchell Moses (23), Nathan Cleary (20) and what's severely lacking is exactly those core basic skills without which you won't have a future in the NRL - kicking, passing and organising.

That's not bashing Williams BTW, every young halfback Britain has produced for years has lacked one or more of the skills to the sorts of levels required. Its why I hope that Williams, unlike so many before him actually does develop them. To me its down to lack of quality coaching for juniors, but also as someone else mentioned the sad fact that halfbacks simply don't need to get that good to play regularly and win things in SL.
Posted by Last Son of Wigan on Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:04 am
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BrisbaneRhino wrote:
The 'he's only 23' line is a copout, as is the idea of needing a winning pack to play well (obviously it helps). Compare Williams' skill with the likes of Mitchell Moses (23), Nathan Cleary (20) and what's severely lacking is exactly those core basic skills without which you won't have a future in the NRL - kicking, passing and organising.

That's not bashing Williams BTW, every young halfback Britain has produced for years has lacked one or more of the skills to the sorts of levels required. Its why I hope that Williams, unlike so many before him actually does develop them. To me its down to lack of quality coaching for juniors, but also as someone else mentioned the sad fact that halfbacks simply don't need to get that good to play regularly and win things in SL.


Couldn't agree more.
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