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Re: England team to face PNG
Post Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:14 am
Posted by Grimmy on Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:14 am
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Suzy Banyon wrote:
Williams has been awful this World Cup. He's established that he isn't international class, and on a marquee wage.

He hasn't lit things up, granted, and I agree with not picking him for this game, but he hasn't had enough of an opportunity to discount him. What his wage has to do with it is beyond me, England can't buy and sell players.
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Re: England team to face PNG
Post Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:51 am
Posted by Trainman on Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:51 am
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Suzy Banyon wrote:
Williams has been awful this World Cup. He's established that he isn't international class, and on a marquee wage.


Williams is still young and learning the game. I think his marquee stays reflects his potential rather than his current level.

As others have said he also hasn’t had a decent opportunity to impress being shunted around positions.
Re: England team to face PNG
Post Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:36 am
Posted by jazzman on Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:36 am
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Biggest concern for me is Hodgson back for Roby, and I would rather see Percival in the centre and Bateman instead of Whitehead in the second row. Whitehead has done nothing.

First 25 minutes against France was like watching Cas, fast open rugby with everyone knowing their place. That is gone for this game I am afraid.
Re: England team to face PNG
Post Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:37 pm
Posted by NickyKiss on Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:37 pm
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jazzman wrote:
Biggest concern for me is Hodgson back for Roby, and I would rather see Percival in the centre and Bateman instead of Whitehead in the second row. Whitehead has done nothing.

First 25 minutes against France was like watching Cas, fast open rugby with everyone knowing their place. That is gone for this game I am afraid.


It's very tough to deny there's an NRL bias when you see Hodgson selected over Roby and Whitehead in ahead of Currie or Bateman in that backrow. They've both struggled IMO whilst Roby has been superb and Bateman and Currie have outperformed Whitehead.

The team is more then good enough to get the job done on Sunday but I'd have had Roby starting, Currie at centre and Bateman in the backrow with Whitehead and Williams on the bench (with Hodgson in the stands).
Re: England team to face PNG
Post Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:35 pm
Posted by moto748 on Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:35 pm
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I do think Hodgson is a good player, and one thing he does have is a very decent kicking game out of dummy half. But Roby has the faster pass, and has been excellent so far. I agree Whitehead has been disappointing, and Currie has certainly out-performed him, even an out-of-position Bateman has looked better. Widdop at full-back (in the Sam Tomkins role, if you will) looked excellent.

Just on Bateman, despite the jibes of "too small", it seems to me he's done OK so far in terms of post-contact metres, much as he does in SL. He should always be worth a place in the 17 in my book.
Re: England team to face PNG
Post Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:55 pm
Posted by NickyKiss on Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:55 pm
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moto748 wrote:
I do think Hodgson is a good player, and one thing he does have is a very decent kicking game out of dummy half. But Roby has the faster pass, and has been excellent so far. I agree Whitehead has been disappointing, and Currie has certainly out-performed him, even an out-of-position Bateman has looked better. Widdop at full-back (in the Sam Tomkins role, if you will) looked excellent.

Just on Bateman, despite the jibes of "too small", it seems to me he's done OK so far in terms of post-contact metres, much as he does in SL. He should always be worth a place in the 17 in my book.



I posted about his metres on the VT. So far he's made 152m against Australia, 118m against Lebanon and 150m against France. He's doing what he does best and it's not his fault that the specialist aspects of centre play don't come naturally to him.

In comparison Whitehead made around 58m against Australia and about 80m against Lebanon IIRC. Yes he's defending well but that's not good enough for an NRL star.
Re: England team to face PNG
Post Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:35 pm
Posted by moto748 on Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:35 pm
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I hadn't seen that post, but it tallies with the impression I got.
Re: England team to face PNG
Post Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:56 pm
Posted by JTB on Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:56 pm
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I do think all this flapping over Hodgson 'starting' over Roby is a bit old skool. It was clear in the first test that there will be a 3 way rotation involving the 2 of them and Lockers. Roby of the three is more dangerous against a team starting to show fatigue around the ruck, there isn't a coach around who simply picks his best 13 with the 4 subs as also rans. We looked a genuine threat against the Aussies in the 2nd half with all of them on, there were pivots all across the line.

As many have said, and has unfortunately been obvious, Bateman is a solid workhorse at centre but is regularly guilty of having blinkers on with the ball in hand. In every game at least once he's had his winger in a better position than himself and failed not just to make the pass, but to even look if his winger is there. He can't be blamed for it, out of position, but it's frustrating when both our wingers are up there with the best in their positions in this tournament.

Kevin Brown - he's an easy target for folk citing Wire's shambles last year, but the team looked the most balanced it has been all tournament with him on the field last weekend. You can't ask for players to be picked on form and ignore that. Williams will get plenty of caps over the next few yrs, I have to admit to a bit of relief that he has not been relied on too heavily this early in his career. I genuinely don't think he's ready to shoulder that burden.
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Re: England team to face PNG
Post Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:26 pm
Posted by Madderzahatter on Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:26 pm
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Roby was immense off the bench and once PNG have tired themselves out trying batter the English pack, he can come on and mop up. Hodgson just needs to stop trying to be fancy and stick to the gameplan.

Not Brown's biggest fan, but he seems to give Widdop and Gale a bit of space to do their thing, so I don't have a problem with him starting. His kicking game needs to be on point, though.

Williams is still young. He basically wouldn't be at Wigan if they hadn't made him a marquee player - only time will tell whether it was worth it.

The whole Bateman v Percival thing - I just think that Bennett's a bit wary of the size of some of the opposition. He's had ample opportunity to change it and he hasn't. People will just have to lump it for now.
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