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Posted by RichieS on Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:22 pm
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Aboveusonlypie wrote:
It isn't tough at all explaining that to your kid. One of the things we learn as we grow up is that our heroes are flawed.

My hero when I was young was Ian Botham . He took coke and was banned for two months, yes that's months not years. His ban didn't diminish him in my eyes. He wasn't lost to the game and indeed is rightly feted as a national hero. Very few people remember that he was banned.

I wish people would stop being so sanctimonious about drug taking. All levels of society from kids to members of parliament partake. It is a problem across all of society. Why single out sportsmen because they are heroes? And for what it's worth, I would argue it's a dubious 'privilege' playing rugby league for a living in any case.


Sorry but that is absolute rubbish. A Poiice Officer, firefighter or serving member of HM Forces would be instantly dismissed from their career without pay...why should a sportsman be allowed to serve a short ban then resume their career? He signed a contract that no doubt stipulated he was to behave like a professional athlete, he has not, therefore he should face the penalties.

Whatever the story regards Ian Botham, it is irrelevant as the rules and sanctions were quite obviously different back then. In this present day, more is expected of a sportman.

Your comment regards it being a privilege to play rugby league professionally are idiotic, of course it is, especially is Zak's case, the lad will no doubt earn more than 75/80k+ a year, yes its not premier league footballer money but its an exceptional salary for a young man playing professional sport.
Posted by Bigredwarrior on Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:20 pm
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RichieS wrote:
Sorry but that is absolute rubbish. A Poiice Officer, firefighter or serving member of HM Forces would be instantly dismissed from their career without pay...why should a sportsman be allowed to serve a short ban then resume their career? He signed a contract that no doubt stipulated he was to behave like a professional athlete, he has not, therefore he should face the penalties.

Whatever the story regards Ian Botham, it is irrelevant as the rules and sanctions were quite obviously different back then. In this present day, more is expected of a sportman.

Your comment regards it being a privilege to play rugby league professionally are idiotic, of course it is, especially is Zak's case, the lad will no doubt earn more than 75/80k+ a year, yes its not premier league footballer money but its an exceptional salary for a young man playing professional sport.


Couldn't have put it better myself! Imagine Teresa May being found out taking class A drugs and being allowed to carry on in her post? No, neither can I. Likewise any other professional in the public eye be it police etc.

If a sportsman was banned for life and a promise that all others would follow then bet your life more of them wouldn't do it, draconian or not.
Posted by Aboveusonlypie on Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:10 am
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RichieS wrote:
Sorry but that is absolute rubbish. A Poiice Officer, firefighter or serving member of HM Forces would be instantly dismissed from their career without pay...why should a sportsman be allowed to serve a short ban then resume their career? He signed a contract that no doubt stipulated he was to behave like a professional athlete, he has not, therefore he should face the penalties.

Whatever the story regards Ian Botham, it is irrelevant as the rules and sanctions were quite obviously different back then. In this present day, more is expected of a sportman.

Your comment regards it being a privilege to play rugby league professionally are idiotic, of course it is, especially is Zak's case, the lad will no doubt earn more than 75/80k+ a year, yes its not premier league footballer money but its an exceptional salary for a young man playing professional sport.

You mention public servants and how is that relevant to the argument?

I gave you an example of a professional sportsman who was treated leniently and went on to still enjoy a stellar career, including being a fantastic role model.

It kills me how people like you always want to condemn folk. It sounds like a lot of jealousy to me. You mention his salary and let me tell you he earns every penny, getting battered and bruised for your enjoyment, storing up health problems for later life.

If the punishment fits the crime why don't you accept that there has to be a difference between performance related (cheating) and non performance related (not cheating) drugs. Would you advocate life sentences for terrorism and for say being caught drunk driving?
"Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940)
Posted by Rogues Gallery on Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:25 am
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People who work in the oil and gas industry are quite often tested for drug misuse/abuse and sacked if it's a positive test.
SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS

For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled.

For 27 - 0 you get a trophy
For 75 - 0 you get sod all.

Wigan had eight in a row
Saints have five in a row
Posted by moto748 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:49 am
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Bigredwarrior wrote:
Imagine Teresa May being found out taking class A drugs and being allowed to carry on in her post?


Imagine senior politicians taking drugs, consorting with prostitutes... the very idea is unthinkable!

Just ask George Osborne! :lol:

And if you think the police are beacons of rectitude, well...
Posted by moto748 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:50 am
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Rogues Gallery wrote:
People who work in the oil and gas industry are quite often tested for drug misuse/abuse and sacked if it's a positive test.


Yes, and for good reason, but it's hardly relevant here.
Posted by Cherry_Warrior on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:09 am
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why do folk keep talking about Hardaker as if he is some sort of victim. He is an idiot and deserves banning. I would be sacked from my job if i was caught with drugs in my system and i earn less than a quarter of what he does. Tough titty if he loses that privelage.
Posted by RichieS on Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:38 am
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Aboveusonlypie wrote:
You mention public servants and how is that relevant to the argument?

I gave you an example of a professional sportsman who was treated leniently and went on to still enjoy a stellar career, including being a fantastic role model.

It kills me how people like you always want to condemn folk. It sounds like a lot of jealousy to me. You mention his salary and let me tell you he earns every penny, getting battered and bruised for your enjoyment, storing up health problems for later life.

If the punishment fits the crime why don't you accept that there has to be a difference between performance related (cheating) and non performance related (not cheating) drugs. Would you advocate life sentences for terrorism and for say being caught drunk driving?


Seriously? Your only argument against me suggesting a 2-year ban for *ANY* drugs use is acceptable within sport and fair is to say we should treat terrorists and drink drivers the same? That would appease you would it?

Well I will bite, as it happens, a drink driver, whilst escaping the same punishment as a terrorist does get an automatic two year driving ban...so quite apt you use that. Two years of a loss of privilege seems fair, as it does with any professional athlete who has signed a contract agreeing to adhere to a certain code.

Drinking is a social activity, done by many and as you seem quite adamant so is cocaine use, so if Zak Hardacre was caught behind the wheel of his car intoxicated with either alcohol or cocaine he would lose the ability to drive, correct? So only right that as he has chose to use cocaine within close enough proximity to a professional game of rugby league, he has lost the right to play rugby for a living. You seem to believe that just because Cocaine is not performance enhancing it should be ok? That is ludicrous...it is as harmful to the body as it gets and it has no place in sport, the two year ban Zak gets should be used to educate him on the strain Cocaine places on his heart not to mention the lasting damage to his brain.

I most certainly am jealous of Zak Hardacre, whilst I was a good rugby league player, I was never good enough to play professionally, so of course it is natural to be jealous of those that have the opportunity to play at a better level than you. I am also jealous of my next door neighbour, he has an amazing 5-bed room house, brand-new Range Rover and a beautiful wife...however, I would also agree the 18 years he will do in prison is fair when the Police arrest him for being a large scale supplier of drugs!

I would also like to point out I am merely stating the punishment is fair and as role model, he should of known better. There are a lot of Castleford fans that will be explaining to the younger generation of fans why Zak Hardacre won't be their #1 next year and that lies solely on Zak's shoulders, he messed up and needs to understand that. If you want to insist that is me condemning him, then fine. If you look back at previous posts, I actually posted hoping Castleford support him as the gravity of his mistake are going to really be quite upsetting for him, I would never want to see him harm himself. His mental health is the bigger picture.

I agree this is a public forum and rightfully people have their own opinions, in this instance, ours differ massively. So I will leave it at that.
Posted by Aboveusonlypie on Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:53 am
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RichieS wrote:
Seriously? Your only argument against me suggesting a 2-year ban for *ANY* drugs use is acceptable within sport and fair is to say we should treat terrorists and drink drivers the same? That would appease you would it?

Well I will bite, as it happens, a drink driver, whilst escaping the same punishment as a terrorist does get an automatic two year driving ban...so quite apt you use that. Two years of a loss of privilege seems fair, as it does with any professional athlete who has signed a contract agreeing to adhere to a certain code.

Drinking is a social activity, done by many and as you seem quite adamant so is cocaine use, so if Zak Hardacre was caught behind the wheel of his car intoxicated with either alcohol or cocaine he would lose the ability to drive, correct? So only right that as he has chose to use cocaine within close enough proximity to a professional game of rugby league, he has lost the right to play rugby for a living. You seem to believe that just because Cocaine is not performance enhancing it should be ok? That is ludicrous...it is as harmful to the body as it gets and it has no place in sport, the two year ban Zak gets should be used to educate him on the strain Cocaine places on his heart not to mention the lasting damage to his brain.

I most certainly am jealous of Zak Hardacre, whilst I was a good rugby league player, I was never good enough to play professionally, so of course it is natural to be jealous of those that have the opportunity to play at a better level than you. I am also jealous of my next door neighbour, he has an amazing 5-bed room house, brand-new Range Rover and a beautiful wife...however, I would also agree the 18 years he will do in prison is fair when the Police arrest him for being a large scale supplier of drugs!

I would also like to point out I am merely stating the punishment is fair and as role model, he should of known better. There are a lot of Castleford fans that will be explaining to the younger generation of fans why Zak Hardacre won't be their #1 next year and that lies solely on Zak's shoulders, he messed up and needs to understand that. If you want to insist that is me condemning him, then fine. If you look back at previous posts, I actually posted hoping Castleford support him as the gravity of his mistake are going to really be quite upsetting for him, I would never want to see him harm himself. His mental health is the bigger picture.

I agree this is a public forum and rightfully people have their own opinions, in this instance, ours differ massively. So I will leave it at that.

Fair enough, and as you say everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Before anyone thinks I'm some sort of bleeding heart liberal let me say that I am in favour of the death penalty for certain acts of terrorism, for example. But there needs to be a scale of punishment so that the punishment fits the crime.

I don't agree that there should be no distinction between cheats and those who merely use recreational drugs. Cheats should be banned for life. But I struggle to see what harm Hardaker was doing other than to himself. To me a six month ban for a first offence with maybe two years for a second offence seems a lot fairer.
"Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940)
Posted by Itchy Arsenal on Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:29 am
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Isn't cocaine a class A drug? As far as I am aware it is illegal to be in possession of such drugs therefore, for me its pretty much black and white.
I am pretty sure that most people if convicted of taking class A drugs would be dismissed from their job.
The only reason I suspect that sportsmen don't get dismissed is because they are a saleable asset to their club.
Personally if I owned Wigan RLFC I would have weekly checks for substance abuse and anyone with a positive result would be immediately suspended subject to secondary check ( which I think is standard practice) and if that proves also to be positive then I would terminate their employment immediately.

Owners need to take the moral ground. Players need to be aware of their responsibilities and the consequences if they break the law.

I personally I wouldn't ban a player for life fir a first offence because we are all human and we all make mistakes however, I would go along with a 2 year ban and a second offence irrespective of time since first offence would then mean a lifetime ban.
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