Re: Hardaker kicked out of grand final squad... : Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:46 pm  

I've just been reading Phil Wilkinson on twitter saying 'out of comp' means drug tests done in the week and not after games. The players know they don't get tested on that basis, so basically you can only get caught in post game tests and players know they'll be fine taking it after a game on a Thursday/Friday as it will be gone from their systems come the next game. Looking online somebody who is taking it now and again and not like a rock and roll star will have it out of their systems within 2-4 days.

To sum that up, Hardaker is even dafter then I thought possible! He's either taken it a few days before that Leeds game or he's taking that much it's staying in his system longer.

What a way to waste two years of your career.

Re: Hardaker kicked out of grand final squad... : Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:55 pm  

I'm just shocked how few RL players get caught out.

Re: Hardaker kicked out of grand final squad... : Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:14 am  

Bigredwarrior wrote:

He tested positive for cocaine 4 days after the grand final.

which is still out of competition. WADA ban applies for cocaine within comp.

Re: Hardaker kicked out of grand final squad... : Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:15 am  

Singing Warrior wrote:

That's not true. He was tested positive in November 2016, less than a year ago. Moreover it was the second time he had been caught. If it had happened here he would have got 2 years plus. Why he was allowed to play for Saints this year is making a mockery of drug regulations.

so Novemeber isnt in comp time is it as the season is over??

Re: Hardaker kicked out of grand final squad... : Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:17 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

Barba is so lucky to be playing the game. To be caught twice and get a 12 game ban, regardless of it being in or out of season, is a total and utter farce.

To think Saints appealed!

the rules are set by WADA cocaine and other stimulants (so it is classed as a performance enhancer) are banned within comp. Other harder drugs (HGH etc) are banned all year round. Barbas not the only one in Aus to be caught more than once and still playing.

Re: Hardaker kicked out of grand final squad... : Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:59 am  

I'm pretty sure that it won't be the first time that Zak has taken coke. I'm also pretty sure that he isn't on his own. So it seems that he is guilty of stupidity. The difference between what Zak has been caught out for and what Terry Newton got caught for is huge and to argue that they should be treated the same is nonsensical. One is cheating the other is not. These rules are in place to stop the cheats. Can anyone tell me how Zak was cheating?

Zero tolerance doesn't work, neither does saying that banning for two years acts as a deterrence. If draconian measures acted as deterrence then there would be no murders in Texas.

It seems to me that people have little sympathy for Zak because of past indiscretions, but that shouldn't come into it. He's clearly not the brightest lad, but I hope he isn't lost to the game because of this and furthermore what happened to Terry Newton should act as a warning to the authorities. Zak needs to be supported as much as possible. I'm sure he could get a lot out of coaching youngsters (under supervision of course) and I'm sure that the youngsters could benefit too. I wish him the best of luck.

Re: Hardaker kicked out of grand final squad... : Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:55 am  

Pieman wrote:

so Novemeber isnt in comp time is it as the season is over??

I'm sorry I misunderstood what you meant when you said "Barba was two years out of comp" . I thought you were saying he hadn't played for two years hence my comment. I now realise that you probably meant two days out of comp.

Re: Hardaker kicked out of grand final squad... : Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:24 am  

Earning a living through professional sport of any kind is a privilege only a very few get. In my opinion if you decide to lower your standards and use drugs, be it performance enhancing or recreational, then you fully deserve to lose that privilege. It does not matter what demons he has or how sorry he is. He needs to get his head straight and spend his ban/suspension reassessing what is important to him.

My son is 8 years old and idolises George Williams, and I am sure there are plenty of Cas fans' sons/daughters who loved Zak. The thought of ever having to explain to my boy why his favourite player won't be playing again for a long while is tough. I think the players themselves need to realise this.

Re: Hardaker kicked out of grand final squad... : Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:41 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

I'm pretty sure that it won't be the first time that Zak has taken coke. I'm also pretty sure that he isn't on his own. So it seems that he is guilty of stupidity. The difference between what Zak has been caught out for and what Terry Newton got caught for is huge and to argue that they should be treated the same is nonsensical. One is cheating the other is not. These rules are in place to stop the cheats. Can anyone tell me how Zak was cheating?


He was guilty not just of stupidity but of commiting a criminal act as coke etc are illegal drugs, whether or not coke is a performance enhancing drug is actually a moot point (it is considered a stimulant in some ways) but it is banned under the wada code which RL has signed up to - all players know this and the punishment that can follow and any that take the chance are putting their career at risk. Cheating or not is irrelevant - it is against the rules of both society and the sport of RL (and many, many other sports). Also , even if they do not like or accept it, top sports stars are role models for many younger fans - should we say ok non-performance enhancing drugs are allowable or treated somehow much more leniently than say steroids etc?

Zero tolerance doesn't work, neither does saying that banning for two years acts as a deterrence. If draconian measures acted as deterrence then there would be no murders in Texas.

Alternatives? Without some kind of deterrence it would likely be much worse. Sadly the murders comparison is far from valid as these acts are mostly carried out by people in a derranged state of mind - as someone who is very against the death penalty for serious crimes I can see where you are coming from on that but it is a totally different level. Ultimately it is up to the individual player to decide if they want to risk their career by taking any form of banned substance but they can have little complaint of they do get caught. Sadly I suspect that for everyone caught many get away with it.

It seems to me that people have little sympathy for Zak because of past indiscretions, but that shouldn't come into it. He's clearly not the brightest lad, but I hope he isn't lost to the game because of this and furthermore what happened to Terry Newton should act as a warning to the authorities. Zak needs to be supported as much as possible. I'm sure he could get a lot out of coaching youngsters (under supervision of course) and I'm sure that the youngsters could benefit too. I wish him the best of luck.

The parallel with Gareth Hock is quite striking - both very good players with, shall we say a history of off-field issues, much as Hock was given a lot of support I hope Hardaker does and learns from this but it can be a tough thing to come back from as Hock's career never really took off after he came back from his ban.

Re: Hardaker kicked out of grand final squad... : Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:52 am  

RichieS wrote:

Earning a living through professional sport of any kind is a privilege only a very few get. In my opinion if you decide to lower your standards and use drugs, be it performance enhancing or recreational, then you fully deserve to lose that privilege. It does not matter what demons he has or how sorry he is. He needs to get his head straight and spend his ban/suspension reassessing what is important to him.

My son is 8 years old and idolises George Williams, and I am sure there are plenty of Cas fans' sons/daughters who loved Zak. The thought of ever having to explain to my boy why his favourite player won't be playing again for a long while is tough. I think the players themselves need to realise this.

It isn't tough at all explaining that to your kid. One of the things we learn as we grow up is that our heroes are flawed.

My hero when I was young was Ian Botham . He took coke and was banned for two months, yes that's months not years. His ban didn't diminish him in my eyes. He wasn't lost to the game and indeed is rightly feted as a national hero. Very few people remember that he was banned.

I wish people would stop being so sanctimonious about drug taking. All levels of society from kids to members of parliament partake. It is a problem across all of society. Why single out sportsmen because they are heroes? And for what it's worth, I would argue it's a dubious 'privilege' playing rugby league for a living in any case.