WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Thorough investigation
Re: Thorough investigation
Post Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:57 am
Posted by Bigredwarrior on Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:57 am
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MadDogg wrote:
Hardly helps matters seeing pictures of players out on the pi$$ last nighr without a care in the world.


Give over they're entitled to a night out after a very bad few weeks at work just like anybody else is. We all know (and so do they) that they've underperformed but they're men and a night out isn't a major issue. Had it been the night before the Cas game fair enough but it's after their season is over.
Re: Thorough investigation
Post Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:43 pm
Posted by Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy on Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:43 pm
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Robbo wrote:
For me, Far too many players have returned having left the club whilst in good form and come back a shadow of their former self. Joel Tomkins has never been the same since his return, Sam Tomkins has been no where near as influential as he was prior to leaving for the NRL (I felt Morgan Escare was brilliant in the first half of the season in his place, things seemed to fall apart when he got injured) . Tommy L has looked like he has just been going through the motions, He was one of my fav players and I was gutted when he left originally but he just seems to be missing that spark that he had. Joe Burgess has spent all season talking the talk on twitter but doing very little (although admittedly he's carried knocks)

The annoying thing is some of those players have come back on big money which could have better een spent on bringing in some fresh talent.

I don't understand how a very similar set of players could be champions 12 months ago to be so poor this season. Defensively we have been terrible and that fire/desire that kept us going in previous seasons has just gone.

I can only hope that a good preseason with a fully fit squad can help us next season because I don't know where we go from here.

A season with very few postives other than the emergence of Tom Davies


Completely agree - the strategy of re-signing old players has been an unmitigated disaster and completely handcuffed the club in terms of playing staff.
Re: Thorough investigation
Post Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:05 pm
Posted by Bigredwarrior on Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:05 pm
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Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy wrote:
Completely agree - the strategy of re-signing old players has been an unmitigated disaster and completely handcuffed the club in terms of playing staff.


Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it?

If the club had allowed Sam Tomkins to go to Wire, Leuluai to go to Saints, Burgess to go to Leeds which were all strongly rumoured, the same fans on here would have been outraged!

The club did the right thing bringing them back but the season has not gone well. I'm still glad we didn't allow any of thes players, Joel included to go anywhere else.
Re: Thorough investigation
Post Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:29 pm
Posted by Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy on Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:29 pm
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Bigredwarrior wrote:
Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it?

If the club had allowed Sam Tomkins to go to Wire, Leuluai to go to Saints, Burgess to go to Leeds which were all strongly rumoured, the same fans on here would have been outraged!

The club did the right thing bringing them back but the season has not gone well. I'm still glad we didn't allow any of thes players, Joel included to go anywhere else.


Not hindsight when Mossop was garbage before he went, nobody has come back from RU a better player and Leuluai was always a better hooker than half. Like I said a disaster all of the club's making.

I wouldn't have been bothered with any of the scenarios you mentioned.
Re: Thorough investigation
Post Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:44 pm
Posted by Bigredwarrior on Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:44 pm
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Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy wrote:
Not hindsight when Mossop was garbage before he went, nobody has come back from RU a better player and Leuluai was always a better hooker than half. Like I said a disaster all of the club's making.

I wouldn't have been bothered with any of the scenarios you mentioned.


This forum almost blew up when ST was rumoured to Wire and slightly less frantic when TL was rumoured to Saints. You may have not been bothered but I assure you, you were in a very small minority.
Re: Thorough investigation
Post Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:13 pm
Posted by Th'Observer on Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:13 pm
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Bigredwarrior wrote:
Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it?

If the club had allowed Sam Tomkins to go to Wire, Leuluai to go to Saints, Burgess to go to Leeds which were all strongly rumoured, the same fans on here would have been outraged!

The club did the right thing bringing them back but the season has not gone well. I'm still glad we didn't allow any of thes players, Joel included to go anywhere else.


I have to agree with you 100% on this post.

This forum was filled with real anxiety and angst at some of our top players at the club leaving to go to RU and the NRL going back just a couple of years. People were speaking about the player drain, how the salary cap was unworkable and how playing for Wigan put you in this huge shop window to be picked off by the riches of Australia or the other code. It probably wasn't everybody but there was a general feeling of comfort when it emerged players like Mossop, Sam T and Joel were likely to return in the future. They were sold for fees and people were happy when these players returned costing less to bring back than the fees we received for them. It seemed like great business. I'm not picking on Mossop as such but just using him as an example because it obviously didn't work out for him and he has since moved on.

I'd like to think bringing some new blood into the club either via an attack coach or a new head coach that players like Joel and Sam T would be given a real shake and we would see something like their old form. My concern with Joel is I actually felt sorry for him leaving the field against Wakefield and that these injuries just won't go away.

The only player I raised an eyebrow at re-signing was Tommy in place of Matty Smith but even then he and Budgie re-signing was rightly met with a warm response (especially Burgess). I hoped Tommy would feature sparingly at hooker with Sam and even Shorrocks playing at half back and Escare at 1. I don't think this was ever the plan sadly given he was handed the 7 jersey and injuries haven't helped. A few fans who sit near me were calling for Matty Smith to leave for most of last season because they believed his passing was woeful, his kicking was poor and his goalkicking was atrocious and how Tommy would improve us in 2017. Tommy's form at 7 this year has really highlighted their foolishness but as this poster I've quoted says hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Re: Thorough investigation
Post Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:29 pm
Posted by Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy on Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:29 pm
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Bigredwarrior wrote:
This forum almost blew up when ST was rumoured to Wire and slightly less frantic when TL was rumoured to Saints. You may have not been bothered but I assure you, you were in a very small minority.


I don't speak for other people, only myself. So my opinion on the disastrous old boys signing strategy has nothing to do with what other people were thinking on this forum.
Re: Thorough investigation
Post Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:32 pm
Posted by NickyKiss on Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:32 pm
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I'm nostalgic and was happy to see them all come back but ultimately most haven't worked out. I think Burgess is carrying a couple of knocks and a stone too much in weight, that when rectified will certainly mean that's the right call. The San Tomkins move is one that could also still bear fruit. He's been pretty good these past few months (bar the last two weeks) but clearly he needs to move in to the halves as he's not fast enough to play full back anymore.

The other moves though (Leuluai, Joel, Mossop etc) have been worthless. They've probably cost us a lot of money and they've not added enough to the team. I feel a little for Joel, he looks pretty much finished with his knees imo (injured again yesterday) and that's robbed him of any chance of making a decent impact.
Re: Thorough investigation
Post Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:33 pm
Posted by Superted on Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:33 pm
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Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy wrote:
Robbo wrote:
For me, Far too many players have returned having left the club whilst in good form and come back a shadow of their former self. Joel Tomkins has never been the same since his return, Sam Tomkins has been no where near as influential as he was prior to leaving for the NRL (I felt Morgan Escare was brilliant in the first half of the season in his place, things seemed to fall apart when he got injured) . Tommy L has looked like he has just been going through the motions, He was one of my fav players and I was gutted when he left originally but he just seems to be missing that spark that he had. Joe Burgess has spent all season talking the talk on twitter but doing very little (although admittedly he's carried knocks)

The annoying thing is some of those players have come back on big money which could have better een spent on bringing in some fresh talent.

I don't understand how a very similar set of players could be champions 12 months ago to be so poor this season. Defensively we have been terrible and that fire/desire that kept us going in previous seasons has just gone.

I can only hope that a good preseason with a fully fit squad can help us next season because I don't know where we go from here.

A season with very few postives other than the emergence of Tom Davies


Completely agree - the strategy of re-signing old players has been an unmitigated disaster and completely handcuffed the club in terms of playing staff.


Apologies in advance for a bit of an 'I told you so' post. The writing was on the wall with Tomkins long before he arrived back in the country. I said at the time it was announced he was heading back to Wigan that he'd turn out to be a very expensive flop (which resulted in a fair few of your lot biting and claiming he'd be back to his best). You could tell from his form in the NRL that he'd lost some speed, strength and bottle - that arrogant swagger had gone as he wasn't able to run rings around terrible defences in the NRL, and he's never recovered from that.

A more worrying point in general is how far back yourselves, us (Leeds), Saints and Wire have slipped in terms of standards over the last few years. I've been saying for a couple of months that I think Leeds can actually win the comp, and whilst I'll very much enjoy it if they do, with the standard of the current Leeds team, it would be an absolute embarrassment to the game over here.
Re: Thorough investigation
Post Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:18 pm
Posted by DaveO on Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:18 pm
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Bigredwarrior wrote:
Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it?

If the club had allowed Sam Tomkins to go to Wire, Leuluai to go to Saints, Burgess to go to Leeds which were all strongly rumoured, the same fans on here would have been outraged!

The club did the right thing bringing them back but the season has not gone well. I'm still glad we didn't allow any of thes players, Joel included to go anywhere else.


Well it clearly didn't do the right thing in that they have all so far, failed. Though as I said elsewhere Sam T and Burgess still have a chance to prove otherwise. And it is not hindsight if you think the policy blinded them from looking at other players or properly considering even if we needed any of them back. I think IL wanted to prove his strategy of getting players to sign a bit of paper that said they will return worked. I bet when these players became available he was delighted to be able to put this policy into action and there was no way they were not going to get signed.

When he first came up with the idea I thought it was daft because I assumed they would all be successful, earning a fortune and so we had seen the last of them in a Wigan shirt again. If they had been and yet had returned in top form it would have been a no-brainer to sign them but every single one bar TL came back under a cloud but we still signed them.

Hopefully this is a lesson learned and the club doesn't guarantee players who leave an easy way out and furthermore doesn't rush to give them one.
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Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
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