WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - UNBELIEVABLE
Re: UNBELIEVABLE
Post Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:39 pm
Posted by DaveO on Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:39 pm
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Cherry_Warrior wrote:
If Manfredi comes back the same player (and it's a big IF) then he is automatically the best winger in the league. Tom Davies is already in the top 3 wingers in the league for me. Just look at his stats, Tries, clean breaks, metres, tackle busts etc, it's phenomenal. Another season for him like this one and the NRL will be sniffing. Burgess is badly out of shape and fitness. Marshall had a couple of good attacking games against a poor Warrington side and that has masked the rest of his games. Shocking under the high ball and totally inept in defence and i can't see that changing, he isn't the answer im afraid. I would swap Gelling for quite a few centres in the league, Bill Topou being the main one. I like Gellings off the cuff style when we are in front or needing to be expansive but he does it too often for my liking and leaves me cringing when i see him within 20 metres of the opposition line when you just want him to take it in.


What has Marshall ever done to you? It's his first season as a regular 1st team player and he's scored 23 tries in 24 games. I think that counts are more than couple of good attacking games. I thought his confidence took a knock when Wane did his usual, over thought it and dropped him but whatever, to write him off so quickly is a bit rash to say the least.
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
Re: UNBELIEVABLE
Post Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:46 pm
Posted by DaveO on Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:46 pm
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Father Ted wrote:
What the answer is I'm not sure. Would keeping Wane and bringing in an attacking coach with a good record help. Waney is a good motivator although he's had a hang dog look about him almost all this season.
Perhaps Wane plus say Geoff Toovey as asst? Toovey would sort out our half backs and backs. The style would certainly improve.

Replacing Wane will be difficult although there would be plenty applicants if his job became vacant. How many of those applicants would be good enough or suitable is another matter. It took IL over a year to find and agree Mcguire so will it take the same next time?

One thing is for sure and that is we are all fed up with the style of rugby played and matter have to improve. Changes have to be made to get those improvements and if they are not made then the outlook for crowds next season is not good at all.
My preference is for Wane plus an attacking/backs asst coach, like Toovey. Don't know if he'd be suitable but if he was I'd have him here and asap!


I don't think adding an attacking coach will make one jot of difference. The whole playing philosophy of the team stems from Wane. How they train, how they play, who plays - everything. The idea Wane will change all this - and it ALL does need changing would effectively require him to take a back seat and let his new attacking coach run the show. Not going to happen.
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
Re: UNBELIEVABLE
Post Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:27 pm
Posted by Cherry_Warrior on Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:27 pm
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DaveO wrote:
What has Marshall ever done to you? It's his first season as a regular 1st team player and he's scored 23 tries in 24 games. I think that counts are more than couple of good attacking games. I thought his confidence took a knock when Wane did his usual, over thought it and dropped him but whatever, to write him off so quickly is a bit rash to say the least.


He has done absolutely nothing to me and i want the lad to do well. It's just my opinion. History is littered with wingers with brilliant try scoring records who ended up in the lower leagues. There is a lot more to being a winger than being fast and brilliant from 5 yards. His defence, positional play and confidence under the high ball are way off. Im sure he could improve on positional play and high balls but i dont see him bulking up anywhere near enough to be a solid defender. I hope he proves me wrong but i dont think he will.
Re: UNBELIEVABLE
Post Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:45 pm
Posted by Bigredwarrior on Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:45 pm
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Cherry_Warrior wrote:
He has done absolutely nothing to me and i want the lad to do well. It's just my opinion. History is littered with wingers with brilliant try scoring records who ended up in the lower leagues. There is a lot more to being a winger than being fast and brilliant from 5 yards. His defence, positional play and confidence under the high ball are way off. Im sure he could improve on positional play and high balls but i dont see him bulking up anywhere near enough to be a solid defender. I hope he proves me wrong but i dont think he will.


Hence he won the Albert Goldthorpe Rookie of the Year? He's had an incredible first season and with the right coaching could go on to much more.
Re: UNBELIEVABLE
Post Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:04 pm
Posted by Cherry_Warrior on Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:04 pm
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Bigredwarrior wrote:
Hence he won the Albert Goldthorpe Rookie of the Year? He's had an incredible first season and with the right coaching could go on to much more.



It's a fantastic achievement for him and he is to be congratulated but i only comment on things i see with my own eyes not what i am told by the Sky Sports contingent. It's an opinion, that's all, One i hope i am wrong about but i really, really don't think i will be. The rookie of the year is a medal decided on by who the Sky Sports team are buttering up at the time. Max Jowitt got it last season, never heard from him since, Andre Savelio the season before, He has done nowt either. For me, he isn't the best rookie at Wigan let alone the league.
Re: UNBELIEVABLE
Post Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:39 pm
Posted by Bigredwarrior on Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:39 pm
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Cherry_Warrior wrote:
It's a fantastic achievement for him and he is to be congratulated but i only comment on things i see with my own eyes not what i am told by the Sky Sports contingent. It's an opinion, that's all, One i hope i am wrong about but i really, really don't think i will be. The rookie of the year is a medal decided on by who the Sky Sports team are buttering up at the time. Max Jowitt got it last season, never heard from him since, Andre Savelio the season before, He has done nowt either. For me, he isn't the best rookie at Wigan let alone the league.


My vote for young player went to Tom Davies who for me is miles ahead of all the players nominated for the Albert Goldthorpe. My point is that to write him off already I'd far too premature. I'd be interested to know what u thought after he scored 4 v Wire at their place on his full debut?
Re: UNBELIEVABLE
Post Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:59 pm
Posted by Itchy Arsenal on Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:59 pm
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Tom Davies has had a great year. Marshall has real pace and if harnessed properly is a potential game winner.
I think Davies has been our best player in 2017
Re: UNBELIEVABLE
Post Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:10 pm
Posted by jonh on Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:10 pm
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Itchy Arsenal wrote:
I'm with you on this Ted.
As a person SW is one of the nicest guys I have ever met and as a coach he appears to have pretty incredible motivational skills which ideally we would want to keep within the club.

I have been bored rigid for 3 seasons and there is absolutely no way I will be buying a season ticket next season unless there are some pretty radical changes. I know very little if anything about Toovey other than his name seems to pop up with regularity when new potential coaches roles are available or rumoured to be available.
I am a lifelong fan who when we lost even after 50 years of following them it still used to ruin my weekend but these days I just shrug my shoulders but deep down it really hurts that we have let standards drop on and off the field to such low and for me personally, demoralising standards.

Financially this season I'm assuming will be much better the loss recently posted however, next season will be horrendous unless IL comes up with something different because season ticket sales will fall off a cliff.

I don't expect to win every game and every trophy available but I do expect to see full time professionals with some the highest paid players in the competition to be competitive in every game and show more resourcefulness than we have seen for the past few years. We play with for me zero intensity with a permanent scowl with players who seem to think they are beyond criticism (ST last year with Bilko was beyond the pale) and the club seem oblivious to falling crowds issuing laughable statistics on attendances which I assume is for contentment internally within the club.

GF holders and Latics in Division 2 or whatever they call it should be the perfect model for potential significant growth in attendances, generating more cash and more importantly attracting new and ideally younger spectators on a weekly basis.
This has just passed us by and IL thinks that a game in Australia will fill in the cracks?? That will no doubt be a great boozing trip for spectators and maybe some advertising income but if we play as we have done for the last 3 years it will add zero to our credibility to be a leading team on the park.

I know we cant go and sign 6 or 7 players I'm not that stupid but we need change and we need the club to acknowledge that currently the levels of performance on and off the field are not acceptable. Two or three new players with a change in style will do for me next season even if that means zero finals and we don't make the playoff semi finals as long as I see positive change with good potential for year on year improvement I will be satisfied.

Do I hope Hull lose tonight? Of course I do. Would I then want us to then beat Wakefield? Of course I would. Would that change how I feel and how I think? Absolutely not.

I'm not anti IL or SW I just want to get back to enjoying my club, my sport and stop kicking the cat. I want to go to a home game in anticipation. I want to go back to shouting and screaming during the game - the past 3 seasons I just sit there in silence. I want to burn the wrestling pit. I want to talk rugby during the week while I'm waiting for the next match to come around. I want to stop knocking my club for being boring, insular and petulant.
I know some people wont believe me but I genuinely don't enjoy knocking the club but I still feel so passionate about the club that I feel I must say something even if the club are not interested or listening.

I hope IL will hold one of his forums with the fans in the next couple of months to hopefully, give us some glimpse of potential changes and acknowledge the unrest amongst the fans.


Best post I have read on here in a long time.
Unofficially the most boring poster on Cherry and White.
Re: UNBELIEVABLE
Post Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:24 pm
Posted by Azul on Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:24 pm
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Itchy Arsenal wrote:
I'm with you on this Ted.
As a person SW is one of the nicest guys I have ever met and as a coach he appears to have pretty incredible motivational skills which ideally we would want to keep within the club.

I have been bored rigid for 3 seasons and there is absolutely no way I will be buying a season ticket next season unless there are some pretty radical changes. I know very little if anything about Toovey other than his name seems to pop up with regularity when new potential coaches roles are available or rumoured to be available.
I am a lifelong fan who when we lost even after 50 years of following them it still used to ruin my weekend but these days I just shrug my shoulders but deep down it really hurts that we have let standards drop on and off the field to such low and for me personally, demoralising standards.

Financially this season I'm assuming will be much better the loss recently posted however, next season will be horrendous unless IL comes up with something different because season ticket sales will fall off a cliff.

I don't expect to win every game and every trophy available but I do expect to see full time professionals with some the highest paid players in the competition to be competitive in every game and show more resourcefulness than we have seen for the past few years. We play with for me zero intensity with a permanent scowl with players who seem to think they are beyond criticism (ST last year with Bilko was beyond the pale) and the club seem oblivious to falling crowds issuing laughable statistics on attendances which I assume is for contentment internally within the club.

GF holders and Latics in Division 2 or whatever they call it should be the perfect model for potential significant growth in attendances, generating more cash and more importantly attracting new and ideally younger spectators on a weekly basis.
This has just passed us by and IL thinks that a game in Australia will fill in the cracks?? That will no doubt be a great boozing trip for spectators and maybe some advertising income but if we play as we have done for the last 3 years it will add zero to our credibility to be a leading team on the park.

I know we cant go and sign 6 or 7 players I'm not that stupid but we need change and we need the club to acknowledge that currently the levels of performance on and off the field are not acceptable. Two or three new players with a change in style will do for me next season even if that means zero finals and we don't make the playoff semi finals as long as I see positive change with good potential for year on year improvement I will be satisfied.

Do I hope Hull lose tonight? Of course I do. Would I then want us to then beat Wakefield? Of course I would. Would that change how I feel and how I think? Absolutely not.

I'm not anti IL or SW I just want to get back to enjoying my club, my sport and stop kicking the cat. I want to go to a home game in anticipation. I want to go back to shouting and screaming during the game - the past 3 seasons I just sit there in silence. I want to burn the wrestling pit. I want to talk rugby during the week while I'm waiting for the next match to come around. I want to stop knocking my club for being boring, insular and petulant.
I know some people wont believe me but I genuinely don't enjoy knocking the club but I still feel so passionate about the club that I feel I must say something even if the club are not interested or listening.

I hope IL will hold one of his forums with the fans in the next couple of months to hopefully, give us some glimpse of potential changes and acknowledge the unrest amongst the fans.


Absolutely spot on.
Re: UNBELIEVABLE
Post Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:59 pm
Posted by Cherry_Warrior on Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:59 pm
Cherry_Warrior Cheeky half-back
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Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:46 pm
Posts: 697
Bigredwarrior wrote:
My vote for young player went to Tom Davies who for me is miles ahead of all the players nominated for the Albert Goldthorpe. My point is that to write him off already I'd far too premature. I'd be interested to know what u thought after he scored 4 v Wire at their place on his full debut?


The same as everyone else naturally. But we have seen a lot more of him since. I am not knocking him i am merley stating a fact. I thought Ainscough was the business when he first came on the scene too. I think i have done it to death now but i have made it clear what i personally think he needs to do and that on stats Davies has made less errors and made a huge amount of metres more etc. If the league are saying Marshall is better than it shows that they just look at the one statistic. Try's
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