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Re: Cas make 6 changes for Hull FC game
Post Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:30 pm
Posted by JWarriors on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:30 pm
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Bigredwarrior wrote:
Agree with most of this but for one key point. If we get there thanks to Cas? Sorry but no. If we make the top 4 it's not thanks to Cas it's thanks to the fact we finished higher in the league than those who miss out and the club deserves some credit for that.

We can't ignore what happened this season with injuries and whilst it's not an out and out excuse, it certainly offers some mitigation for points lost.

What can't be ignored are the results like Leigh away, Warrington and Wakey at home etc. Despite the players missing those performances were not acceptable and the lads on the pitch are capable of far better than they've dished up at times this year.

Sunday's performance summed it all up nicely. A huge game to get us a semi final and we under performed again.

If we make the top 4 we'll deserve it by virtue of the fact that our league position dictates it. However the performances this season have generally not need good enough and if there is any justice, Cas will go on to become champions.


Even since our 'big guns' returned our play has been less than attractive to watch. But it has to be said, as good or bad as we may appear to be, since we got most of our players back from injury (Warrington Challenge Cup) I think have won 8 out of the last 11 games. That's 73% win rate. If we had won 73% of our games this year then we would be comfortably second.

I know it's all ifs and buts, it's just something I realised yesterday and thought it was interesting. I think the problem is, when we've been bad, we've been really bad, and those performances stick in people's minds longer than the performances where we get a win.
Re: Cas make 6 changes for Hull FC game
Post Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:46 pm
Posted by Bigredwarrior on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:46 pm
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JWarriors wrote:
Even since our 'big guns' returned our play has been less than attractive to watch. But it has to be said, as good or bad as we may appear to be, since we got most of our players back from injury (Warrington Challenge Cup) I think have won 8 out of the last 11 games. That's 73% win rate. If we had won 73% of our games this year then we would be comfortably second.

I know it's all ifs and buts, it's just something I realised yesterday and thought it was interesting. I think the problem is, when we've been bad, we've been really bad, and those performances stick in people's minds longer than the performances where we get a win.



You're right. Only Cas, Leeds and Wakey have scored more points than us which I found hard to believe. So much criticism has been thrown at our attack but it's defence that's let us down. We've had to do so much of it that we've been goosed when we've had the ball.
Re: Cas make 6 changes for Hull FC game
Post Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:52 pm
Posted by NickyKiss on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:52 pm
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It's up to Cas what they do, they've certainly earned the right to do that.

We look like getting what we deserve from our league campaign. It just hasn't been good enough the majority of the time.
Re: Cas make 6 changes for Hull FC game
Post Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:09 pm
Posted by DaveO on Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:09 pm
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Bigredwarrior wrote:
You're right. Only Cas, Leeds and Wakey have scored more points than us which I found hard to believe. So much criticism has been thrown at our attack but it's defence that's let us down. We've had to do so much of it that we've been goosed when we've had the ball.


If you look at the attack stats for the past 3 years you will find we are something like 30 tries a season off being top try scorers after the regular rounds and after the regular rounds this season we were in fact 3rd on tries scored after Cas and Salford. The three seasons before that we were top, 2nd to Wire by 7 and top. There is a difference to how being 3rd sounds to being 30 tries off the pace. I think the stats back up the perception that our attack has not been good for three seasons.
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
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Re: Cas make 6 changes for Hull FC game
Post Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posted by Jimmy Hornbys Tash on Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:26 pm
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I think the problem is (quote), when we've been bad, we've been "really bad" whereas in most of our wins we have just been bad !!! the only consistency has been............. win or lose we've been boring.
The real worry (imho) is that we weren't much better last season and we certainly wont see an improvement any time soon without a change in coaching personnel.
"I REMEMBER WHEN ROCK WAS YOUNG" - BUT WHAT THE **** DID I COME UPSTAIRS FOR ?
Re: Cas make 6 changes for Hull FC game
Post Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:30 pm
Posted by Cruncher on Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:30 pm
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DaveO wrote:
If you look at the attack stats for the past 3 years you will find we are something like 30 tries a season off being top try scorers after the regular rounds and after the regular rounds this season we were in fact 3rd on tries scored after Cas and Salford. The three seasons before that we were top, 2nd to Wire by 7 and top. There is a difference to how being 3rd sounds to being 30 tries off the pace. I think the stats back up the perception that our attack has not been good for three seasons.


I agree. I think that stat is a bit misleading.

But all stats aside, no-one who's watched Wigan regularly this season could seriously think that we are a great attacking team.

I can't remember a period when I felt so unexcited when we got close to the opposition line. So often it ends in a turn-over or a Hail Mary ball leading to nothing (and that is one of the most frustrating outcomes of all, because it appears to be our halfbacks' default move, despite it failing again and again).

Add to that our 50% conversion rate, and we're getting close to an explanation as to why we've fallen so far behind.
Re: Cas make 6 changes for Hull FC game
Post Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:41 pm
Posted by newgroundb4wakey on Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:41 pm
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You have to remember not all of them are rested, some are genuinely injured.
It would be interesting if Salford pull off a shock against Saints. How many Hull players would then come down with a mystery illness.
Re: Cas make 6 changes for Hull FC game
Post Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:45 pm
Posted by Cruncher on Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:45 pm
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newgroundb4wakey wrote:
You have to remember not all of them are rested, some are genuinely injured.
It would be interesting if Salford pull off a shock against Saints. How many Hull players would then come down with a mystery illness.


It doesn't matter. They can rest as many as they want. They've earned the right.
Re: Cas make 6 changes for Hull FC game
Post Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:22 am
Posted by tigersteve on Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:22 am
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I might be in the minority here as a Cas fan but i would much rather play Wigan in the semi than Saints....I know there is a lot of needle between our 2 clubs but at least at some level there is respect (there has to be if there is needle).

All i see from Saints is disdain towards Cas!
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Re: Cas make 6 changes for Hull FC game
Post Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:02 am
Posted by Cruncher on Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:02 am
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tigersteve wrote:
I might be in the minority here as a Cas fan but i would much rather play Wigan in the semi than Saints....I know there is a lot of needle between our 2 clubs but at least at some level there is respect (there has to be if there is needle).

All i see from Saints is disdain towards Cas!



You guys are playing an amazing brand of rugby, and will make very worthy champions.

I can't speak for everyone, but my view is that Cas are now setting the pace - and the onus is on the rest of us to somehow catch up.

Last Sunday ought to have been a salutary lesson to us that if you're not going forward in sport, you're going backward. Whether we will act on it, remains to be seen.
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