The Elephant in the Room : Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:50 am  

It was obvious to me what the last two performances have lacked. I said it often enough last season and I'm saying it again. Wigan fans have consistently underrated Matty Smith.

Tommy may tackle well (although not on Friday) and his passing is passable Now I like Tommy, always have, but we miss Matty terribly. We would have won both those games with him in the team. Matty gave the team the organisation that was missing on Friday.

Tommy doesn't organise. He isn't vocal, and what is just as bad, his kicking is woeful. We looked good when we had a full team out but when we needed our big players to stand up, it didn't happen. The best performances on Friday were from the fringe players; Davies, Escare, Gregson. The props (especially Clubb, Flower and FPN) stunk the place out and that never helps a half back but I'm afraid I'm expecting more from Tommy. When McIlorum (if he ever does) gets back I might be tempted to try Powell at Half Back, and put Tommy on the bench as back up hooker.

Thoughts?

Re: The Elephant in the Room : Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:03 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

It was obvious to me what the last two performances have lacked. I said it often enough last season and I'm saying it again. Wigan fans have consistently underrated Matty Smith.

Tommy may tackle well (although not on Friday) and his passing is passable Now I like Tommy, always have, but we miss Matty terribly. We would have won both those games with him in the team. Matty gave the team the organisation that was missing on Friday.

Tommy doesn't organise. He isn't vocal, and what is just as bad, his kicking is woeful. We looked good when we had a full team out but when we needed our big players to stand up, it didn't happen. The best performances on Friday were from the fringe players; Davies, Escare, Gregson. The props (especially Clubb, Flower and FPN) stunk the place out and that never helps a half back but I'm afraid I'm expecting more from Tommy. When McIlorum (if he ever does) gets back I might be tempted to try Powell at Half Back, and put Tommy on the bench as back up hooker.

Thoughts?

You are Matty Smith's dad and I claim my £5

Re: The Elephant in the Room : Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:24 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

It was obvious to me what the last two performances have lacked. I said it often enough last season and I'm saying it again. Wigan fans have consistently underrated Matty Smith.

Tommy may tackle well (although not on Friday) and his passing is passable Now I like Tommy, always have, but we miss Matty terribly. We would have won both those games with him in the team. Matty gave the team the organisation that was missing on Friday.

Tommy doesn't organise. He isn't vocal, and what is just as bad, his kicking is woeful. We looked good when we had a full team out but when we needed our big players to stand up, it didn't happen. The best performances on Friday were from the fringe players; Davies, Escare, Gregson. The props (especially Clubb, Flower and FPN) stunk the place out and that never helps a half back but I'm afraid I'm expecting more from Tommy. When McIlorum (if he ever does) gets back I might be tempted to try Powell at Half Back, and put Tommy on the bench as back up hooker.

Thoughts?

Sorry mate, but I suspect that the thing(s) we have been missing for the past couple of matches are:
First choice wingers
First choice centres
First choice hooker
First choice Loose Forward
Sam Tomkins (wherever he may play)

Re: The Elephant in the Room : Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:29 am  

Tommy had his first bad game of 2017 last weekend, but that was playing behind a pack who were soundly bullied for 20 vital minutes, and with a halfback partner who sometimes (regularly, last Friday) goes disastrously off-script. Plus, as others have said, we have lots of firepower missing.

I quite liked Matty, but he's gone. I don't think Tommy is a bad replacement.

Re: The Elephant in the Room : Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:59 am  

Pie Eyed wrote:

Sorry mate, but I suspect that the thing(s) we have been missing for the past couple of matches are:
First choice wingers
First choice centres
First choice hooker
First choice Loose Forward
Sam Tomkins (wherever he may play)

Yes, you are right. But that isn't the point I am making.

We would have won both of those games last year with Matty in the team. Tommy's poor kicking and lack of organisation will cost us in close games.

Re: The Elephant in the Room : Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:12 am  

Cruncher wrote:

Tommy had his first bad game of 2017 last weekend, but that was playing behind a pack who were soundly bullied for 20 vital minutes, and with a halfback partner who sometimes (regularly, last Friday) goes disastrously off-script. Plus, as others have said, we have lots of firepower missing.

I quite liked Matty, but he's gone. I don't think Tommy is a bad replacement.

Agreed, he isn't a bad replacement, but as I've said above, we won those tight games last year. This year we have drawn one and lost one. I'm not blaming Tommy as you have rightly pointed out the pack was poor. But the point is - this happened loads last year, but we managed to win games just like the Hull game and the Huddersfield one too.

Tommy was supposed to be so good that we wouldn't miss Matty's kicking, but that hasn't been the case. Tommy has assisted in just one try all season, despite playing every minute. And while we are at it Morgan is currently kicking at 60%, some way below Matty's rate. Though he wasn't a reliable kicker either, being average was good enough. People were happy to welcome Tommy back because he was seen as a superior half back to Matty. But in terms of results on the pitch - it isn't happening.

Happy to be proved wrong by the way.

Re: The Elephant in the Room : Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:42 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

Yes, you are right. But that isn't the point I am making.

We would have won both of those games last year with Matty in the team. Tommy's poor kicking and lack of organisation will cost us in close games.

You do realise we lost games with Smith in the team as well last year? May just be me but I think I've seen more entertainment in general play these last half dozen games than we did for the majority of last season. You mention poor kicking but his place kicking was mostly abysmal last year (how many times did we groan at when the kicks went straight down the throat of the opposition full back)? His conversions are no better than Escare's, however he can knock over a decent drop goal.

I don't just want one point wins, with some more players back lets get back to playing good attacking rugby with options all over the field (moving away from the five years old planned move).

Re: The Elephant in the Room : Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:04 pm  

MattyB wrote:

You do realise we lost games with Smith in the team as well last year? May just be me but I think I've seen more entertainment in general play these last half dozen games than we did for the majority of last season. You mention poor kicking but his place kicking was mostly abysmal last year (how many times did we groan at when the kicks went straight down the throat of the opposition full back)? His conversions are no better than Escare's, however he can knock over a decent drop goal.

I don't just want one point wins, with some more players back lets get back to playing good attacking rugby with options all over the field (moving away from the five years old planned move).

I'd agree that we are looking better. I put that down to Williams, Farrell, Gildart and Burgess on the left edge. We look no different on the right edge.

Every kicker in the league hoofs it straight to the full back when they are kicking from 20 or 30 yards out. Matty is no different in that respect, but he is better when we are going forward, much better than Tommy.

I've been delighted by Escare, But his goal kicks are not as accurate. He has missed 12 out of 30 that's 60% success. Quite comfortably worse that Smith last season, who kicked 83 out of 110 that's 75%. Sometimes the figures (reality) tell a different story from what you've 'seen'.

Just out of interest I looked up Pat Richards' rate in 2013 - any guesses? (Yes 75%!!!)

Re: The Elephant in the Room : Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:18 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

It was obvious to me what the last two performances have lacked. I said it often enough last season and I'm saying it again. Wigan fans have consistently underrated Matty Smith.

Tommy may tackle well (although not on Friday) and his passing is passable Now I like Tommy, always have, but we miss Matty terribly. We would have won both those games with him in the team. Matty gave the team the organisation that was missing on Friday.

Tommy doesn't organise. He isn't vocal, and what is just as bad, his kicking is woeful. We looked good when we had a full team out but when we needed our big players to stand up, it didn't happen. The best performances on Friday were from the fringe players; Davies, Escare, Gregson. The props (especially Clubb, Flower and FPN) stunk the place out and that never helps a half back but I'm afraid I'm expecting more from Tommy. When McIlorum (if he ever does) gets back I might be tempted to try Powell at Half Back, and put Tommy on the bench as back up hooker.

Thoughts?

We could and maybe should have won both games. If we had, then would you still think the same? We have played more attacking rugby this season than we did in the whole of last season. Smith did play well on Friday but he wont have it all his own way against teams playing with a lot more confidence than Warrington. Will see how he does on Thursday against Salford.

Re: The Elephant in the Room : Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:51 pm  

King Johns II wrote:

We could and maybe should have won both games. If we had, then would you still think the same? We have played more attacking rugby this season than we did in the whole of last season. Smith did play well on Friday but he wont have it all his own way against teams playing with a lot more confidence than Warrington. Will see how he does on Thursday against Salford.

Yes I would think the same. I posted something similar earlier on in the season, after the Widnes game I think, when our kicking was poor. However, it is becoming apparent to me that this is now a problem. I hope it doesn't cost us in the bigger games.