Re: The Standard of modern game! : Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:00 am  

1. Format
The play off format is all wrong, how can it be good that Wigan, Wire, Hull and Saints will end up playing each other multiple times through the season. Add in the Magic weekend and teams can end up playing each other 5 or 6 times in a season - just wrong. Then you have teams who finish fifth and below and end up playing a handull of matches at the end of the season and the play-offs which have no meaning to anyone, again pointless. The regular season does not help - you lose a couple of games - so what as long as you finish in the top eight or even better top four there is no problem about how crap the previous games or dropped points being important so there is no incentive to perform in every game.

2.The actual play - the PTB is a joke (refs can't agree on policing it some do some don't), and don't get me started on players wriggling and bouncing around to try and win penalties (last nights match the Hull winger Fonua did it every tackle, wriggle bounce and moan at the ref instead of getting on with the game). Endless video ref replays slowing the game down, more coaches (alleged water carriers) on the pitch than players even when it is freezing cold! Too many average players lauded as being top stars by the sky muppets.

3.The salary cap has been done to death on here - but if it can't even be raised in line with inflation over the years then there is something seriously wrong.

4. For me the lack of academy/reserve grade is killing the game and is one of the biggest reasons for the slow decline of the professional game, it is no co-incidence that the slaughter of this level of the game has perfectly matched the declining basic skill levels in the supposed top tier of the game (and then we wonder why the Aussies walk all over us in world club challenge/internationals...when it is patently obvious their basic skills/game skills are so much better).

Sadly I do not see things improving as the same tired faces with no ideas or imagination are running things and turkeys do not vote for christmas.

Re: The Standard of modern game! : Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:44 am  

Cherry_Warrior wrote:

My Grandad would agree. After tonight he wont watch any more. He says whoever finishes top are champions and doesn't care about the Sky Sports Trophy.

Interesting. Assuming he started watching as a kid, he watched the championship decided by a 4 -16 team playoff until 1970. Long before Sky had even been conceived.

Re: The Standard of modern game! : Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:32 pm  

Players cheating all the time has ruined the game for me, coaches calling his players honest, no they aren't! nearly all the basics have gone out of RL, it's become very boring I used to be able to watch a game over and over again not any more,once is enough!

Re: The Standard of modern game! : Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:47 pm  

Bigredwarrior wrote:

It's sad isn't it? The salary cap was brought in to end Wigan's dominance of the game and it was successful in doing so. However it brought Wigan and the other top teams down to the standard of the less successful clubs rather than brining the standard of the less successful clubs up to the higher standard.
Our game is a far cry from the scintillating, fast, ferocious sport it once was and I fear there is no way back.
Some changes are for the better with better protection for player safety but it has reduced the attraction of our great game.

Wouldnt say it was brought in to end Wigans dominance, if anything Wigan dominace had already come to and end when the cap was introduced, although you could argue it may hve held them back in regaining dominance , but would say Saints and Bradford would have a stronger argument for that , it was brought in to stop clubs being foolish with there money , even Wigan overspent and where pretty much bankrupt , I thought it was a pretty good idea at the time but have come to the conclusion that its damaging the game and the standard of the sport, Super league this year has been horrid to watch and we are no closer to the NRL and continually shooting ourselves in the foot when given the chance to catch up.

As bad as wigan are playing this year I still think they will win the GF.

Re: The Standard of modern game! : Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:17 pm  

exiled Warrior wrote:

1. Format
The play off format is all wrong, how can it be good that Wigan, Wire, Hull and Saints will end up playing each other multiple times through the season. Add in the Magic weekend and teams can end up playing each other 5 or 6 times in a season - just wrong. Then you have teams who finish fifth and below and end up playing a handull of matches at the end of the season and the play-offs which have no meaning to anyone, again pointless. The regular season does not help - you lose a couple of games - so what as long as you finish in the top eight or even better top four there is no problem about how crap the previous games or dropped points being important so there is no incentive to perform in every game.

I agree with almost everything else but not your assessment of the format.

In the absence of additional clubs and the player pool to support them the choice is between ending the comp weeks ago or playing extra games against our closest rivals. I've enjoyed the Super 8s and think there's been some great games so I don't see how the sport would benefit from dropping them. I'm not fussed if the last game against Wire was the 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th time we've met; it was a great game. Better than playing an uncompetitive game against a bottom of the league side.

As for there being a handful of matches that don't mean anything. That's sport. You will never, ever have zero meaningless matches unless you keep artifically resetting points every time a team falls too far behind to be in with a chance of silverware, and all that achieves is to make the preceding games pointless.

"So long as you finish in the top 8" - that's simply not true is it? Every team was wanting a top 4 finish. getting to the GF from below there is pretty tough now. I for one certainly wouldn't have been happy finishing 8th. Would you, really?? Finishing in the top 8 merely gets you a chance, but not a very good one if you're in the bottom half. teams really need to finish in the top 4 to feel in any way comfortable and to do that they need to make almost all their previous games count.

Dropped points do matter. Ask any team that missed the top 4 or even the top 8. Yes, losing a game here and there can be brushed off, especially for the top teams, because by and large you've won plenty and your close opponents are also likely to lose one or two, but the further into the business end of the season you get the more those points matter both for position in the top 4 and for a chance at winning the shield.

Re: The Standard of modern game! : Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:35 pm  

That's true. Cas are a good example: they've played as good footy as anyone at times this season, but a few poor results left them with next to no chance of making the GF. And you have to say, rightly so.


Much as I can agree with some of the criticisms of the current format, I did say when it was brought in (as did many people) that we shouldn't keep chopping and changing every other year, having made a change we should stick with it for a decent period.Somewhat reluctantly, I have to stand by that.

Re: The Standard of modern game! : Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:55 pm  

The Hull winger last night , Fonua is it , was embarrassing trying to get penalties , these refs need to penalise it then the coaches might tell them to stop it , mind you most of the refs are useless.

Re: The Standard of modern game! : Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:35 pm  

The suggestion the cap was brought in to level teams or end Wigan's dominance is wrong. It was originally brought in to try and stop clubs spending beyond their means which is something we did too. The cap Brought in by Maurice permitted clubs to spend a percentage of their income on player wages with no upper limit. The greater your income the more you could spend. It was later changed to be a flat cap for all teams regardless of income. In reality the cap has gone up when you take into account the marquee player and reduced cap values for home grown players and those that have been at a club form10 years or more. I agree it need to be looked at butt with the lack of income coming into the game I'm not sure what the answer is.

For me the biggest problem with the game is the play the ball. There is so much messing about from all teams it got ridiculous. It needs sorting for the start of next season. It will mean a lot of penalties, something I'm sure there will me many complaints about but the RFL need to instruct the refs to persist until the players learn. Adopting the second ref to police the PTB would probably be beneficial, certainly in the short term.

I also think the disciplinary guidelines need sorting too. I know many complain about inconsistency, a lot of that is opinion based as to how bad individuals think an incident was, IMO the dicplinary are consistently soft and bans across the board need increasing.

Re: The Standard of modern game! : Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:11 am  

The PTB is easy, allow the ball to be ripped out regardless of how many are in the tackle. Make it the ball carriers responsibility to hold onto the ball. This way there are no penalties (stoppages of play dependent on the refs mood) if it comes out you play on.

Re: The Standard of modern game! : Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:16 am  

Trainman wrote:

The suggestion the cap was brought in to level teams or end Wigan's dominance is wrong. It was originally brought in to try and stop clubs spending beyond their means which is something we did too. The cap Brought in by Maurice permitted clubs to spend a percentage of their income on player wages with no upper limit. The greater your income the more you could spend. It was later changed to be a flat cap for all teams regardless of income. In reality the cap has gone up when you take into account the marquee player and reduced cap values for home grown players and those that have been at a club form10 years or more. I agree it need to be looked at butt with the lack of income coming into the game I'm not sure what the answer is.

For me the biggest problem with the game is the play the ball. There is so much messing about from all teams it got ridiculous. It needs sorting for the start of next season. It will mean a lot of penalties, something I'm sure there will me many complaints about but the RFL need to instruct the refs to persist until the players learn. Adopting the second ref to police the PTB would probably be beneficial, certainly in the short term.

I also think the disciplinary guidelines need sorting too. I know many complain about inconsistency, a lot of that is opinion based as to how bad individuals think an incident was, IMO the dicplinary are consistently soft and bans across the board need increasing.

If I remember correctly, in the first season of Super League clubs like Halifax were spending c90% of their income on salaries trying to compete. Think the initial salary cap was 50% of income or £1.2m, which ever was higher. (Alledgely, some clubs may have continued to operate with salaries at £3m+, (excluding any Club Shop salaries), for a few seasons)?

I agree that the current cap is too low and doesn't allow us to compete with the NRL or RU. This needs to be reviewed, but in line with sensible financial operating practices that ensure we don't have clubs folding.