Re: Super 8's discussion - including fixtures : Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:18 pm  

I'd have Warrington as favourites for the final but I believe Hull are certainly capable of winning it. I think if, at the start of the season you'd have offered the Hull fans a cup final and a team challenging for top 4 they'd have bitten your hand off. They're in the final so have very chance of winning it, the top 4 will likely be us, Hull, Wire and St Helens, from there it's only 2 wins.

Re: Super 8's discussion - including fixtures : Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:33 pm  

For the record, I hope Hull do win the Cup. Quality set of fans who have suffered some terrible rugby in recent years. And if any team can knock Wire over it's Hull. I just can't see it though.

I think Wigan and Saints will power on in SL now and wouldn't bet against that being the GF, hilariously, as both sets of fans have slated their teams rotten this year.

I'd probably put Hull 4th favourites for the title now.

Re: Super 8's discussion - including fixtures : Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:12 am  

I'd be quite happy to see Hull win the CC too. Hoping for a good contest anyway; I'm planning to go this year after missing a couple lately.

Re: Super 8's discussion - including fixtures : Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:44 pm  

Do I hear Widnes moaning about the format being unfair on clubs who have not won enough games?

[DaveO]

Re: Super 8's discussion - including fixtures : Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:26 am  

Levrier wrote:

Do I hear Widnes moaning about the format being unfair on clubs who have not won enough games?

Yes they want the top 8 to start on zero points like the middle eights, presumably because it's nigh on impossible from their position to get into the top four. Statistically it is (or was, I have not looked after the latest game) but it would be very hard to do so - which is EXACTLY how it should be. The reward for a good league season is a good chance of a top four spot. They should be grateful they get another crack at it having finished with so few wins.

If they get their wish you may as well tell all fans of every SL club to not bother with a season ticket because no sooner a team secures a top eight place however many fixtures are left out of the rest of the regular season have instantly become meaningless. As it is there is still an incentive to keep playing hard to help make sure getting a top four spot is more likely to happen.

It would also distort the remaining fixtures as teams with a secure top eight place rest players potentially giving easier games to teams still scrapping for a place.

The Widnes idea means there is absolutely no reward for being one of the best sides over 26 games and would just further devalue the largest part of the season! Can't believe they can't see that.

Re: Super 8's discussion - including fixtures : Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:28 pm  

IF and it's BIG IF the format were to change then I would go this way.


For the Super 8's
Ist team after the 23 rounds starts on 8 points, 2nd team on 7 points, 3rd team on 6 points etc down to 8th team on 1 point. I would allow the points difference to stand.

Re: Super 8's discussion - including fixtures : Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:29 pm  

DaveO wrote:

The Widnes idea means there is absolutely no reward for being one of the best sides over 26 games and would just further devalue the largest part of the season! Can't believe they can't see that.

Not exactly; what he's saying is that the League comp ends after 23 games, with the LLS being awarded on that basis, then a completely separate competition starts after that, with the top 8 qualifying for what is, in effect, a return to the old Premiership trophy.

[DaveO]

Re: Super 8's discussion - including fixtures : Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:56 pm  

Geoff wrote:

Not exactly; what he's saying is that the League comp ends after 23 games, with the LLS being awarded on that basis, then a completely separate competition starts after that, with the top 8 qualifying for what is, in effect, a return to the old Premiership trophy.

No, its much more akin to the recently abandoned top 8 playoff system whereby teams who were poor all season were rewarded for that with a crack at the main prize little different in terms of advantage gained to the teams at the top. No real advantage to finishing high in the league.

The "league" is deemed unimportant and the lesser trophy than winning the GF. So under the Widnes system there is no incentive to finish high in the league or try and bust a gut winning it if at the end of the day you aren't doing your chances of winning the GF any good at all.

It's all about the status of the competition. In the past the league was the one to win and the premiership was a bit of an end of season extending cup competition of lesser status. Unless the top 8 and "premiership final" (i.e. the GF) revert to being the lesser competition there is no way the league rounds where points don't count towards the top 8 will see teams busting a gut. Teams that win the league will always be deemed to have won it because the ones with the clever coaches rested players and didn't try for it and once a top 8 slot is secure you will even have fans arguing the club rests players because they want it to win the GF more than the league.

I think crowds for league games would plummet towards the end of the season and the number of dead rubbers increase.

At least where the regular season points count you have incentive to get as many as you can to make getting a top 4 place more likely. I think it is about the best aspect of the new system.

I still think the best playoff system if you are going to have one was the top five system first tried. Plenty of incentive to finish at the top of the league and rewards for higher placed finishes and five teams was enough to be given the crack at the final. Extending the number of terms beyond that can't do anything other than devalue the foregoing league competition as it makes it too easy to qualify whatever system you use.

Re: Super 8's discussion - including fixtures : Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:00 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

IF and it's BIG IF the format were to change then I would go this way.


For the Super 8's
Ist team after the 23 rounds starts on 8 points, 2nd team on 7 points, 3rd team on 6 points etc down to 8th team on 1 point. I would allow the points difference to stand.

Yeah that's what I had in mind as well. I don't think there's anything wrong with it as it is though, the other teams just need to improve during the regular season, like Hull have this year.

Re: Super 8's discussion - including fixtures : Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:39 pm  

I thought the slogan was "Every minute matters", but not if Widnes had their way. Leave it as it is, or write off 23 rounds of SuperLeague