Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:57 pm  

Mark Laurie wrote:

I think mcguire's last chance of international selection was this series. Agree smith's kicking from hand is better but not been as good an overall player as McGuire has been. In recent years. He will likely be skipper but will miss Sinfield.

He's had a great career and now he faces a new challenge as a leader and with more of a responsibility to get the Leeds side around the field. I'm interested to see how he goes because if I'm honest I don't fancy him to be able to fill Sinfields boots because he's too emotional. I always thought Sinfield was the type of character to keep people's focus when things were getting tense but I don't see that in McGuire.

If he thrives though I'd have no issue with him coming back in the England side. We can't always build to the future because if you do you may never get there. If he's the best player available at the time get him in.

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:28 pm  

McGuire deserved to be selected in this series, sure he's not the quickest anymore, but he has the best passing game of any English halfback in the game. He was also great in the warm up game against NZ at headingley.

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:03 am  

I'd say what Smith showed - and Sinfield has before him - is that what is needed first and foremost from a halfback at international level is kicking and organisational skills. England in particular need someone to provide that structure. It's also good to have a halfback with the confidence to tell forwards - especially very experienced ones - when and where to run.

In summary I'd say Smith is similar in lots of ways to Trent Hodkinson.

The problem for England is that we seemingly cannot produce a halfback (or even more wishfully a pair) who have those skills as a given and a touch of class beyond that in attack.

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:23 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

I'd say what Smith showed - and Sinfield has before him - is that what is needed first and foremost from a halfback at international level is kicking and organisational skills. England in particular need someone to provide that structure. It's also good to have a halfback with the confidence to tell forwards - especially very experienced ones - when and where to run.

In summary I'd say Smith is similar in lots of ways to Trent Hodkinson.

The problem for England is that we seemingly cannot produce a halfback (or even more wishfully a pair) who have those skills as a given and a touch of class beyond that in attack.

International RL games between the "big 3" are fast becoming very Origin-like. Origin is a great spectacle but it doesn't always lend itself to the best games of rugby; often low scoring, low risk, forward dominated, defence orientated arm wrestles. We've shown we can mix it in those sorts of games but as you say we don't have a Shaun Johnson or a Jonathan Thurston who can produce a moment of magic in such a game. The fact none of our backs scored a single try between them in 3 games emphasises this.

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:17 pm  

WARRIORCRAIG wrote:

International RL games between the "big 3" are fast becoming very Origin-like. Origin is a great spectacle but it doesn't always lend itself to the best games of rugby; often low scoring, low risk, forward dominated, defence orientated arm wrestles. We've shown we can mix it in those sorts of games but as you say we don't have a Shaun Johnson or a Jonathan Thurston who can produce a moment of magic in such a game. The fact none of our backs scored a single try between them in 3 games emphasises this.

I remember saying on an Aussie forum years ago that SoO is fine for three games a year, but if every game of rugby league was like that, I'd soon lose interest (and for the reasons you state).

I think the idea that our backs didn't score, therefore there's something wrong, is not necessarily the case. One thing that was much improved from England in the third game was attacking structure. Hence, for example, for Whitehead's second try, the outside backs were nicely set up in position for a break on the outside. This kept the defence in check and meant Whitehead had that bit more space to get over the line. If he'd been the only option, the Kiwi defence would have dealt with it.

As for moments of magic, it may well be that George Williams will produce those for England in the future. And there are other good young players coming through who will want to stake a claim.

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:02 pm  

It'd be bad news for us but we could do with some young English halves going over to the NRL and learning to play in tight, high pressure games each week. Lads like Williams get it too easy half the season and don't need to work on the real basics because their natural running and attacking talents mean they don't need to.

It would be fantastic for the national side but bad for us, Leeds and the competition in general if Williams, Hampshire and Sutcliffe were to go to the NRL (and play).

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:32 pm  

It's getting the game time that would be the problem.

We need balance in our halves one who can control n organise the team n another who has a more creative off the cuff style of play n a full back who can read and come into attacking line at right time and who has a great support game.

Zak has good defence and in.super league a good ball return and comes in for set plays tho his support play in general is not as good as sam T's nor is he as good coming in to the attacking line.

Widdop disappointing in general but Steve macnamara is in oz majority of the time so sees more of him week in week out.bad tournament?

Williams grew into first game very well but didn't really have great game in second test but I think another season playing and he will be much more prepared for the four nations

Smith. Well we won the test n he was brought in we did look better going forward and he kicked well, is he the answer for four nations? If he has a stand out season then maybe but we will be in a great position of people missing out who if they were selected nobody would have any complaints.

I'm really excited for the four nations now we've a very good pool of young and experienced players to choose from and others who are pushing to get into the squad.

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:57 pm  

Danny Brough is the best English halfback in Super League IMO.
The fact he had a fall out with McNamara and then decided to play for Scotland shouldn't detract from that.
Hopefully we have had and seen the last of McNamara.
If or when the new England coach takes over he will bring Brough back into the England set up.

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:42 am  

Father Ted wrote:

Danny Brough is the best English halfback in Super League IMO..

Ha ha ha

Seriously ....

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:23 am  

Even if he is, he's how old? 34 or something, now. The ship has sailed.