Re: Thornley : Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:59 pm  

ShortArse wrote:

if rumour mill is correct then sarge and gelling with joel/bateman/gildart as cover is fine.
gildart now has SL experience and next year we should be looking to give him a lot more experience with us, rather than onloan.
thornley hasnt really figures this year, so effectively its the same cover but promotion of ollie gildart to eventually take over from sarge (if he goes).

we only have to worry if sarge does go, or is out longterm. however, i would get gildart in. at his age he will develop very quickly, and certainly did not look out of place in SL according to reports when out on loan earlier this year.

Don't agree with that sorry.

I personally think that us going into this season with a lack of cover/depth at centre has been a BIG contributing factor in our indifferent form.

The 8 weeks Joel spent at centre killed his form and robbed us of much needed size and strike in the pack. Bateman is now doing a good job but I personally want to see him next to Joel and Lockers as, for me, that's our strongest 11, 12 & 13 combo.

When was the last time we had these guys lined up together? It's a potential England backrow FFS.

When you get a long term injury we shouldn't then cripple ourselves further by weakening other position to cover.

Re: Thornley : Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:47 pm  

Tornley has only just returned from a serious long term injury so will be a long,long way from being match fit (even Wane has said so - in the WEN recently) - so I am not so sure he would be a viable option as cover anyway - certainly innthe next few games. Would it be worth risking him in a major game against say Leeds or Saints and the games from here on in are going to be full on hard games.

Re: Thornley : Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:40 pm  

jinkin jimmy wrote:

Absolutely, though I find Paul Wellens' "retirement" extremely convenient for the Saints.

I'm not sure what you're insinuating, but the moment a player sets foot on a playing field his full salary counts on the cap.

Re: Thornley : Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:53 pm  

Suzy Banyon wrote:

I'm not sure what you're insinuating, but the moment a player sets foot on a playing field his full salary counts on the cap.

Jeez, Saints must have left a good bit of room on their salary cap this year then with them being on their 34th fullback.

Re: Thornley : Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:43 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Don't agree with that sorry.

I personally think that us going into this season with a lack of cover/depth at centre has been a BIG contributing factor in our indifferent form.

The 8 weeks Joel spent at centre killed his form and robbed us of much needed size and strike in the pack. Bateman is now doing a good job but I personally want to see him next to Joel and Lockers as, for me, that's our strongest 11, 12 & 13 combo.

When was the last time we had these guys lined up together? It's a potential England backrow FFS.

When you get a long term injury we shouldn't then cripple ourselves further by weakening other position to cover.

wheres the issue ? as i stated, i would play gildart as first choice cover for centres anyway. the back rowers would only move in where we had 2 injuries in that area.
next year we will also have sam back at FB, which will have a great impact on the centres, as he will draw defenders away, taking a great deal of physical pressure off them

Re: Thornley : Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:44 am  

Suzy Banyon wrote:

I'm not sure what you're insinuating, but the moment a player sets foot on a playing field his full salary counts on the cap.

Surely that depends on the payments being made to the retiring player, if a player was remunerated at £100k/year and retired half way through the season with no further payments being made then the cap value is £50k.

As this would vary the aggregate liability under the cap, sections 6.1.2 and 6.1.3 deal with this, the wording of 6.1.3:

On approval of a Termination Payment referred to in clause 6.1.2 above, the Player’s original Salary Cap Value shall thereafter be disregarded for the purposes of calculating his previous Club’s Aggregate Liability.

The Termination Payment as a compromise agreement and the words above suggest that a retiring player could have all of their payments removed from the Aggregate Liability of the club and sign a new player. There's wording around the Aggregate Liability not exceeding the cap but no clear indication in the rules that the Terminated player's actual earnings in the year are added back into the Aggregate Liability. The only part seems to be the "spirit" which isn't exactly a clear definition.

Re: Thornley : Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:49 am  

Suzy Banyon wrote:

I'm not sure what you're insinuating, but the moment a player sets foot on a playing field his full salary counts on the cap.

Sorry, I thought I read somewhere that if a player retires then cap space is freed up. In any event, this whole short term, mid season, whatever signing thing is totally out of order, Stuart Fielden notwithstanding

Re: Thornley : Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:53 am  

goobervision wrote:

Surely that depends on the payments being made to the retiring player, if a player was remunerated at £100k/year and retired half way through the season with no further payments being made then the cap value is £50k.

As this would vary the aggregate liability under the cap, sections 6.1.2 and 6.1.3 deal with this, the wording of 6.1.3:

On approval of a Termination Payment referred to in clause 6.1.2 above, the Player’s original Salary Cap Value shall thereafter be disregarded for the purposes of calculating his previous Club’s Aggregate Liability.

The Termination Payment as a compromise agreement and the words above suggest that a retiring player could have all of their payments removed from the Aggregate Liability of the club and sign a new player. There's wording around the Aggregate Liability not exceeding the cap but no clear indication in the rules that the Terminated player's actual earnings in the year are added back into the Aggregate Liability. The only part seems to be the "spirit" which isn't exactly a clear definition.

Thank you, this is what I was alluding to.

Re: Thornley : Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:57 am  

ShortArse wrote:

wheres the issue ? as i stated, i would play gildart as first choice cover for centres anyway. the back rowers would only move in where we had 2 injuries in that area.
next year we will also have sam back at FB, which will have a great impact on the centres, as he will draw defenders away, taking a great deal of physical pressure off them

But is Gildhart ready?

We went with him as cover this year and he wasn't. I'd say he looks more than 12/18 months off being physically ready before he can be regarded as a true squad player.

We'd be silly to make the same mistake again imo.

Re: Thornley : Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:17 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

But is Gildhart ready?

We went with him as cover this year and he wasn't. I'd say he looks more than 12/18 months off being physically ready before he can be regarded as a true squad player.

We'd be silly to make the same mistake again imo.

Agreed. If anything happened to either first choice centre next season Wane would rightly revert to either Bateman or Tomkins. IMO Gildart will not be ready to hold down a place at any top club next season, it's just too soon for me from the little I have seen. Given the disruption this causes to the pack I would be happy to see us in the market for a back next season with both Burgess and Thornley gone.