Re: Who else..... : Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:25 am  

I couldn't agree more with Jonh's original post. I'd been looking forward to that game all week and they serve up a performance like that. Also, even taking in Cruncher's assessment of individual performance levels ( for me Joel is the best second rower we have, but I digress) if we played "proper rugby", i.e. Pack sets the platform, halves exploit that to make opportunities for the backs, etc we may not be any higher in the league but at least I would be a happier spectator. This current style is turning me off in a big way. I do not want to see Sarginson et al taking drive after drive as the props rotate on and off having done nothing.
I don't know if Wane may be under threat and have supported him in the past but, truth is, I don't want to watch this style of play and if a new coach changed that.....

Re: Who else..... : Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:32 am  

jinkin jimmy wrote:

I couldn't agree more with Jonh's original post. I'd been looking forward to that game all week and they serve up a performance like that. Also, even taking in Cruncher's assessment of individual performance levels ( for me Joel is the best second rower we have, but I digress) if we played "proper rugby", i.e. Pack sets the platform, halves exploit that to make opportunities for the backs, etc we may not be any higher in the league but at least I would be a happier spectator. This current style is turning me off in a big way. I do not want to see Sarginson et al taking drive after drive as the props rotate on and off having done nothing.
I don't know if Wane may be under threat and have supported him in the past but, truth is, I don't want to watch this style of play and if a new coach changed that.....

I don't disagree with you at all. My assessment was based on this season's form - for whatever reason, i.e. Joel being out of position for most of it, Lockers being finished etc - rather than their normal standard. But last night was near enough the last straw for me. Our forwards are very substandard and our halves like a pair of headless chickens (mainly because one has been promoted way ahead of himself, while the other lacks many of the basic tools anyway). Add to that our centres, which has been a weak area for Wigan since George Carmont left, and what do we have left?

Whatever happens in the remainder of this season, it will be difficult to avoid remembering the number of occasions (and last night was only the latest), when the opposition got a bit of fire in their belly and Wigan totally collapsed as a result. And yet only last season we were supposedly the brutal team who everyone feared. Talk about embarrassing.

[DaveO]

Re: Who else..... : Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:57 am  

Cruncher wrote:

Years ago, I used to apply a thing I called the Crunch Test. It was just a bit of fun, but during the Ian Millward era it didn't make happy reading at all.

If you work on the following basis, A - World Class, B - Excellent, C - Good/Okay, D - Average/Poor, E - Unacceptable, how does the current team measure up? Here is what I'd consider Wigan's most experienced 1st 17 this season, and what we're getting from them in 2015.

1 Matty Bowen - C
2 Dom Manfredi - B
3 Dan Sarginson - C
4 Anthony Gelling - D
5 Joe Burgess - B
6 George Williams - C
7 Matty Smith - D
8 Ben Flower - C
9 Mick McIlorum - B
10 Tony Clubb - C
11 Liam Farrell - C
12 John Bateman - B
13 Sean O'Loughlin - D

14 Ryan Hampshire - C
15 Joel Tomkins - D
16 Lee Mossop - E
17 Talima Tautai - E

Let's face it, man for man we are a very ordinary team. How we've been so near the top of the table for so long could be one of the great mysteries of 2015.

Think you are right with that assessment except for the two centres where for me it's an E for the pair of them.

I can see why they are popular with fans in that they put in a lot of effort but I don't think they have a clue at how to play as centres. Gelling simply plays his own game regardless of the rest of the team. It's not off the cuff stuff it's just poor. He looks good running over weak sides but is all over the place positionally.

Sarge is a defensive liability and is another who lives in a world of his own. Compare his on-field awareness awareness to that of Budgie. Budgie is going to be great player because not only has he got the physical attributes he got the rugby brain to go with it. It stands out a mile and it also highlights Sarge hasn't got this "X" factor.

They are both Wane type players though. They will train the house down all week and that is good enough for him. Sarge would probably jump in the fire if Wane told him to. Gells is a bit of a laugh with his BMX antics but this doesn't make up for his failings.

I am sure someone will say they are young and inexperienced (so why go with such inexperience in both 1st choice centre slots?) but that implies they are going to improve and I doubt they will. Certainly not under Wane IMO.

Re: Who else..... : Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:42 pm  

Cruncher wrote:

Years ago, I used to apply a thing I called the Crunch Test. It was just a bit of fun, but during the Ian Millward era it didn't make happy reading at all.

If you work on the following basis, A - World Class, B - Excellent, C - Good/Okay, D - Average/Poor, E - Unacceptable, how does the current team measure up? Here is what I'd consider Wigan's most experienced 1st 17 this season, and what we're getting from them in 2015.

1 Matty Bowen - C
2 Dom Manfredi - B
3 Dan Sarginson - C
4 Anthony Gelling - D
5 Joe Burgess - B
6 George Williams - C
7 Matty Smith - D

You seem to have forgotten one crucial fact when grading the above. This is the first back line in Super League history which has kept a relegation-level pack not only in the hunt - but the top 3.

That has to stand for something.

Re: Who else..... : Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:52 am  

Mugwump wrote:

Cruncher wrote:

Years ago, I used to apply a thing I called the Crunch Test. It was just a bit of fun, but during the Ian Millward era it didn't make happy reading at all.

If you work on the following basis, A - World Class, B - Excellent, C - Good/Okay, D - Average/Poor, E - Unacceptable, how does the current team measure up? Here is what I'd consider Wigan's most experienced 1st 17 this season, and what we're getting from them in 2015.

1 Matty Bowen - C
2 Dom Manfredi - B
3 Dan Sarginson - C
4 Anthony Gelling - D
5 Joe Burgess - B
6 George Williams - C
7 Matty Smith - D

You seem to have forgotten one crucial fact when grading the above. This is the first back line in Super League history which has kept a relegation-level pack not only in the hunt - but the top 3.

That has to stand for something.

See you in a week smugwimp