Re: Error after error after error after error after error? : Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:27 am  

FearTheVee wrote:

I know you'll think I'm winding you up, but you're over performing in third imo.

Ropey full back, no centres, bang average seven and rookie 6, limited 9, no props and small back row.

It's just not a very good team.

But yet they've excelled wtih a similar roster in recent years. Indeed they really had the wood over us 18 months ago.

WHen Wane's Wigan were ripping it up, it was based on simple but effective qualities.
Prop forwards who based it up with vigour.
Fast line speed to neutralise opposition pack's go forward, done without getting pinged for offside very often.
Good wrestle to slow the PTB.
We'll structured moves through the back that were carried out to perfection.
Players weren't always stars, but they had the often had core qualities for their position rather than flashy extras (players like Goulding & Smith for example).

It seems like the top 3 have gone awry, possibly due to the personnel losing a psychological edge. Now it just seems to be straight to flinging the ball out wide and hoping, but when that's all the oppo have to contend with, its a lot easier.

Its hard to call Wane as he's had so much success, but I really do think that he's had that Wigan roster playing to its full potential for extended periods, playing far beyond the sum of the parts would suggest. To keep that up years on end is a very tough task.

Re: Error after error after error after error after error? : Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:32 am  

Black Sam Bellamy wrote:

Saying Bowen is fine at 1 is absolute lunacy, he is a liability. One of the worst fullback I've seen in years. And one of the worst foreign imports I think I've ever seen. But he's far from alone in being not upto it.

I thought he turned in a half decent game last night, considering.
I even thought that, bar his two clangers, he was pretty good in the derby t'other week. He seems to do a lot of clearing up for you guys, even if it is punctuated with the odd error.

Re: Error after error after error after error after error? : Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:50 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

I thought he turned in a half decent game last night, considering.
I even thought that, bar his two clangers, he was pretty good in the derby t'other week. He seems to do a lot of clearing up for you guys, even if it is punctuated with the odd error.

Catastrophic errors that lead to tries though.

Re: Error after error after error after error after error? : Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:17 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

Its hard to call Wane as he's had so much success, but I really do think that he's had that Wigan roster playing to its full potential for extended periods, playing far beyond the sum of the parts would suggest. To keep that up years on end is a very tough task.

I think this is a very fair summary and what I've been arguing for ages (though I think you put it better). Regardless of whether we get to Old Trafford this year Wane has earned the right to see out his contract IMO.

The recruitment for next season is crucial now though. No one had really heard of Cuthbertson before Leeds brought him over, so it makes me think that there are loads of players in the NRL who could do a similar job for us. I'd be looking at someone like Lillyman at the Warriors, who runs hard, fast and arrow straight with a quick ptb every time. He's 31 and might fancy it. But our scouts will (should) know better.

Re: Error after error after error after error after error? : Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:46 pm  

As I said the other day, Lillyman and Matulino, please!


If only...

[DaveO]

Re: Error after error after error after error after error? : Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:49 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

I think this is a very fair summary and what I've been arguing for ages (though I think you put it better). Regardless of whether we get to Old Trafford this year Wane has earned the right to see out his contract IMO.

I really don't understand the logic of this. No one earns the right to keep making mistakes. It's not a charity and if he is actually damaging the team and alienating players he needs to go. The is no room for the sentiment you express IMO.

We sacked John Dorahy when the team won the league and the cup because he'd been sussed out as useless and the team won despite him. I think regardless of what happens Wane has also passed his sell by date.

The recruitment for next season is crucial now though. No one had really heard of Cuthbertson before Leeds brought him over, so it makes me think that there are loads of players in the NRL who could do a similar job for us. I'd be looking at someone like Lillyman at the Warriors, who runs hard, fast and arrow straight with a quick ptb every time. He's 31 and might fancy it. But our scouts will (should) know better.

Do we actually have any scouts who pro-actively suggest we might be interested in certain players? It used to happen like that. Or do we only go looking when we think we need a player by which time its probably too late? I have no idea how the scouting is done these days and we do seem a little obsessed with the homegrown thing.

Re: Error after error after error after error after error? : Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:59 pm  

DaveO wrote:

I really don't understand the logic of this. No one earns the right to keep making mistakes. It's not a charity and if he is actually damaging the team and alienating players he needs to go. The is no room for the sentiment you express IMO.

We sacked John Dorahy when the team won the league and the cup because he'd been sussed out as useless and the team won despite him. I think regardless of what happens Wane has also passed his sell by date.

That's a fair point Dave.

But I'm not arguing on sentiment, rather on logic. The point being - he's done all it before - that is , getting a team to play greater than the sum of its' parts. John Dorahy's team was successful in spite of him, not because of him IIRC.

He's going through a bad patch at the moment, and I understand the criticisms, he's certainly killing the backs for example, but I think he has proved himself a good coach and therefor, it's not worth the upheaval of getting someone else in just yet. Rather than the next Madge, we could just as easily get the next Craig Sandercock or Peter Gentle.

But believe me - I understand your frustration.

[DaveO]

Re: Error after error after error after error after error? : Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:08 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

John Dorahy's team was successful in spite of him, not because of him IIRC.

That is true and I feel success for us this season will only come in the same way.