Re: Time for change. : Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:30 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Spot on. He should be playing 80 mins.

It's so obvious to see that when MM leaves the field we go to pot. The most simple and easiest way to stop that happening would be to stop taking him off.

I'm as baffled by the use of MM as everyone else. All I can think is either he's injured and carrying a knock - or he's doing so much defence in the middle when he's on that the coaches think they have to spell him. Having said that, his first stint was very short last night.

[DaveO]

Re: Time for change. : Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:39 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

Less than twelve months ago Sarge played for England against both Australia and New Zealand. If you had watched those games you would have seen that he looked comfortably at home in that environment, in fact he outperformed Watkins over the two games.

I watched them but what he is doing now isn't good enough. Mossop was good before he went to Oz, isn't doing it now and its the same with Sarge.

So that would suggest that at least, Sarge has what it takes to become a top class player. The problem is that he is asked to do so much more than any other centre in the competition. If Percival at Saints (the best young centre around) was asked to do the second play hit ups that Sarge is being asked to do, he wouldn't cope either.

If Sarge is making defensive errors, it's not because he can't defend, it's because he is being asked to do too much. Just compare his carries with those of any of our props. That is where the problem lies.

I don't think you can lay the blame for his mistakes because he takes the ball in too much. When he is attacking very often its head down and no pass. Defensively he has left his winger with an impossible task quite often also never mind showing poor tackling.

What him taking the ball in will do is guarantee his name on the team sheet as Wane will see his 110% effort and regardless of either of our opinions on him as a player or what mistakes he may make, that will do for Wane.

We don't have one prop in the club worthy of the name. Flower is a pale shadow of his former self, Crosby and Mossop do nothing, Tautai is a joke. Only Tony Clubb looks capable, and he is hardly in the same league as about a dozen I could name starting with Chris Hill and ending with Andy Lynch.

Having to hope Clubb is back soon is a dismal indictment of the rest of them.

Re: Time for change. : Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:15 pm  

DaveO wrote:

I watched them but what he is doing now isn't good enough. Mossop was good before he went to Oz, isn't doing it now and its the same with Sarge.

I don't think you can lay the blame for his mistakes because he takes the ball in too much. When he is attacking very often its head down and no pass. Defensively he has left his winger with an impossible task quite often also never mind showing poor tackling.

What him taking the ball in will do is guarantee his name on the team sheet as Wane will see his 110% effort and regardless of either of our opinions on him as a player or what mistakes he may make, that will do for Wane.

Having to hope Clubb is back soon is a dismal indictment of the rest of them.

I agree at the moment it isn't good enough, but he is a good enough player, as he has proved. That is dependent on the props doing their jobs well enough to lessen the need for him to take every second carry. He is knackered and that leads to poor decision making, surely you must see that?

If Wane likes a trier then he's not the only one is he? Give me a team full of triers and I will make something.

Yes waiting for Clubb is an indictment of the rest, but he is our best prop - no question, though as I said I could name at least a dozen better in Super League.

Re: Time for change. : Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:04 pm  

Agree with the general consensus here; for me, it's not primarily *about* our centres, or even our halves. Until we get some proper forwards, we're on a hiding to nothing.

Just on halves, a lot of people are saying, we must have an experienced half, Brough or similar. Yet in the NRL, plenty of teams are going with young half-backs these days: Moses and Brooks at the Tigers, Austin and Williams at the Raiders, Moses Mbye is keeping Origin half Hodkinson out the side at the Bulldogs... Not to mention Shaun Johnson at the Warriors. Difference is, of course, these guys are all playing behind proper packs.

Re: Time for change. : Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:55 pm  

I just hope we haven't thrown all our cash at Tomkins because going to the Warriors has set him back about 3 years...
Hopefully there's some cash left in the kitty to boost the forward dept, because Mossop, Patrick and Crosby can all do one imo. Still can't believe we resigned Mossop - he was poor and an injury liability before he left - I can count the number of blinding games he's had in his whole career on one hand...

Re: Time for change. : Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:07 am  

I'd hope Tomkins moves to halfback when he returns. I wouldn't underestimate just how much difference he'll make to your attack next year.

Its weird how quickly views change. When you beat Leeds at MM wasn't your pack all over ours? Wouldn't be surprised to see the same again this week.

Re: Time for change. : Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:00 pm  

Madderzahatter wrote:

I just hope we haven't thrown all our cash at Tomkins because going to the Warriors has set him back about 3 years...

I don't think so. Just cos we don't see him scoring length of the field tries like he did in SL only proves that NRL defences are tougher, not that he's a worse player.

Madderzahatter wrote:

Hopefully there's some cash left in the kitty to boost the forward dept...

Me too!

Re: Time for change. : Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:09 pm  

Time for change?
Time for improvement, especially our away form.

You can have change without improvement but you can't have improvement without change.

Re: Time for change. : Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:20 pm  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

I'd hope Tomkins moves to halfback when he returns. I wouldn't underestimate just how much difference he'll make to your attack next year.

Its weird how quickly views change. When you beat Leeds at MM wasn't your pack all over ours? Wouldn't be surprised to see the same again this week.

I've been talking about that magic game a lot over the last few weeks and how people thought after the game that we'd played well but I disagreed. I thought the effort was pretty good but we we're awful with the ball in Leeds half and we had to rely on individual brilliance and large chunks of luck to get us over the line.

One thing I would say the game told us is just how massive John Bateman is for us. He is the only forward who looks like he wants to follow Micky Mac and take it to the opposition. He'll be a big positive on Thursday as will Clubb. Will they be enough to carry the bags of wind that Mossop, Flower, Crosby and Patrick are? Doubtful!!

Re: Time for change. : Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:45 pm  

Wigan's best player at the Magic weekend was Ash Handley!