Re: Lack of Size : Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:27 pm  

Wigan Peer wrote:

Perhaps he has now realised that he needs to get his career back on course after the last season when he was very unsettled.. I don't see how people can lay this at the door of the club solely.. Tho i know it suits ,many posters here's agenda to do so..

What agenda? I think it's laughable that anyone who puts forward an argument that goes against any course of action the club takes must have an agenda.

There's certainly no agenda on my part. I realise, as I said in my op, there's a few sides to this tale (Taylor wanting to leave, Wigan wanting rightful compensating, Hull not coughing up).

Seeing that I don't know the behind the scenes details on this one all I can do I base my thoughts on what I see. What i see is a player who last season wasn't performing to his usual standards and has now seemingly turned this slump around.

When you factor in the supposed issues for his down turn it now SEEMS that as he's performing again the issues are no more. The fact this has happened whilst playing a few miles down the motorway and not by moving to Hull means location wasn't the be all and end all factor.

Like I said earlier the situation has been resolved but sadly from a Wigan pov it's not a great result for us.

Can't see how coming to that conclusion means there's an agenda behind it.

Re: Lack of Size : Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:32 pm  

P-J wrote:

Bearing in mind Taylor is about a stone overweight I'd say he's definitely been unfocused recently.

I'd have loved to have kept him, but I have no problem with us getting a fee for him from Salford rather than letting him run down his contract whilst sulking.

There we go with the weight/training arguments.

ATEOTD if he's performing on the park, which he is, it shouldn't matter about his weight/physique/attitude/contract status etc.

When those things have an impact on his performance (like they did last year) that's when they become an issue.

He should imo be judged on his on the field performances. Currently his performances for Salford indicate he'd be an asset to us.

Re: Lack of Size : Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:33 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

What agenda? I think it's laughable that anyone who puts forward an argument that goes against any course of action the club takes must have an agenda.

There's certainly no agenda on my part. I realise, as I said in my op, there's a few sides to this tale (Taylor wanting to leave, Wigan wanting rightful compensating, Hull not coughing up).

Seeing that I don't know the behind the scenes details on this one all I can do I base my thoughts on what I see. What i see is a player who last season wasn't performing to his usual standards and has now seemingly turned this slump around.

When you factor in the supposed issues for his down turn it now SEEMS that as he's performing again the issues are no more. The fact this has happened whilst playing a few miles down the motorway and not by moving to Hull means location wasn't the be all and end all factor.

Like I said earlier the situation has been resolved but sadly from a Wigan pov it's not a great result for us.

Can't see how coming to that conclusion means there's an agenda behind it.

Calm down, i was agreeing with you!!

Re: Lack of Size : Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:40 pm  

Wigan Peer wrote:

Calm down, i was agreeing with you!!

Sorry

Re: Lack of Size : Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:46 pm  

P-J wrote:

Bearing in mind Taylor is about a stone overweight I'd say he's definitely been unfocused recently.

I'd have loved to have kept him, but I have no problem with us getting a fee for him from Salford rather than letting him run down his contract whilst sulking.

A couple of week ago in a Salford match on TV Taylor had his shirt pulled up in a tackle to reveal a bit of a belly, people on this forum commented on how he looked a bit over weight.
In Thursdays match when he scored under the posts he celebrated by standing tall whilst leaning back and rubbing his belly as if he was pointing out that he could still perform even with a belly.

Yesterday I bumped into a Wigan supporter of over 40 years in Atherton and we got chatting, we started talking about things what were going on at the Club and I asked him what did he know about the Hopkins situation saying that I had heard he was a bad trainer.
He said that he knew Hopkins brother and he told him the problem with their Stuart was he trained ok but the first thing he did after leaving training was find the nearest McDonalds.
If true it just seems that a lot of emphasise is being put on players being lean and mean before anything else.

[DaveO]

Re: Lack of Size : Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:27 am  

cherryandwhitedavid06 wrote:

IIRC at the time, Wane and Lenegan were both quoted as saying that they wanted the player to stay but the situation was untenable as it was causing disruption/distraction into the rest of the group who were a close knit bunch. This is why he slowly faded out of the first team picture before the playoffs and didn't come back in. If a player is negatively influencing the squad harmony then unfortunately they have to go, no matter how good they are.

I remember that. In fact I was quite surprised at the time of how negative the public comments about Taylor were from IL and Wane. It was as if they were justifying what had happened and seemed a bit lacking in professionalism to slate a player in public to that degree.

For me the question now is why isn't he as useless to Salford as he was to us? Why have these issues seemingly vanished?

Contracts are a fact of life in sport and RL and sometimes players decide their future is elsewhere. When they do it's down to the professionalism of both the player and the club to ensure both parties benefit from what is left on the contract. The player still has to perform but equally the club would be stupid to freeze the player out if they were one of the best players in the side.

It's pretty obvious things deteriorated to the extent he is out of the door and playing for Salford when he could and in my opinion should be here. Where most of the blame for that lies we don't know but I doubt it is 100% player or 100% club that were to blame.

One thought that crossed my mind was the original contract was 2 years plus a 1 year option in the cubs favour. The club invoking that option when the player wants to leave and an offer is on the table is going to annoy the player even though they signed up for that kind of deal in the first place. I think simple 2 or 3 year deals are much better as everyone knows where they stand. Maybe if he'd had a straight 3 year deal none of the issues would have arisen.

I can see why the club is cautious with some players offering such a deal but I just think they are inherently uncertain. If the option is on the same pay as earlier in the deal it may seem to the player as if the club is getting him on the cheap if in the meantime they have proved themselves a real asset. Instead of another year at Wigan the option is a straitjacket which limits earnings.

Re: Lack of Size : Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:55 am  

DaveO wrote:

I remember that. In fact I was quite surprised at the time of how negative the public comments about Taylor were from IL and Wane. It was as if they were justifying what had happened and seemed a bit lacking in professionalism to slate a player in public to that degree.

For me the question now is why isn't he as useless to Salford as he was to us? Why have these issues seemingly vanished?

Contracts are a fact of life in sport and RL and sometimes players decide their future is elsewhere. When they do it's down to the professionalism of both the player and the club to ensure both parties benefit from what is left on the contract. The player still has to perform but equally the club would be stupid to freeze the player out if they were one of the best players in the side.

It's pretty obvious things deteriorated to the extent he is out of the door and playing for Salford when he could and in my opinion should be here. Where most of the blame for that lies we don't know but I doubt it is 100% player or 100% club that were to blame.

One thought that crossed my mind was the original contract was 2 years plus a 1 year option in the cubs favour. The club invoking that option when the player wants to leave and an offer is on the table is going to annoy the player even though they signed up for that kind of deal in the first place. I think simple 2 or 3 year deals are much better as everyone knows where they stand. Maybe if he'd had a straight 3 year deal none of the issues would have arisen.

I can see why the club is cautious with some players offering such a deal but I just think they are inherently uncertain. If the option is on the same pay as earlier in the deal it may seem to the player as if the club is getting him on the cheap if in the meantime they have proved themselves a real asset. Instead of another year at Wigan the option is a straitjacket which limits earnings.

Perhaps Mr Taylor has realised, albeit belatedly, that he has been a bit of an idiot...

[DaveO]

Re: Lack of Size : Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:15 pm  

Wigan Peer wrote:

Perhaps Mr Taylor has realised, albeit belatedly, that he has been a bit of an idiot...

Given he can clearly play when not in Hull, perhaps Wane and IL are also feeling a bit stupid?

Re: Lack of Size : Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:19 am  

Who's to say that Taylor's attitude would have changed if he'd stayed at Wigan. Sometimes you need a change of scene to make you reassess your priorities.

He probably could only see IL stopping him from moving back to Hull and therefore wasn't quite so committed. He can probably see Salford as a stepping stone so is happier to put the effort in?

Who knows?

All i can say is that in the back haly of last season there was obviously a problem with Taylor's attitude that stopped him being a valuable member of the team. Wigan took the option to get rid and spend his salary on someone they thought would contribute more.

Reasonable decision i think.

Re: Lack of Size : Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:06 pm  

Big Steve wrote:

Who's to say that Taylor's attitude would have changed if he'd stayed at Wigan. Sometimes you need a change of scene to make you reassess your priorities.

He probably could only see IL stopping him from moving back to Hull and therefore wasn't quite so committed. He can probably see Salford as a stepping stone so is happier to put the effort in?

Wholly knows?

All i can say is that in the back haly of last

season there was obviously a problem with Taylor's attitude that stopped him being a valuable member of the team. Wigan took the option to get rid and spend his salary on someone they thought would contribute more.

Reasonable decision i think.

You ask who knows..... DaveO knows, of course... Now stop offering a balanced point of view and toe the negative line....