Re: Smith : Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:46 pm  

DP_wwrlfc wrote:

Smiths kicking game isn't actually that good IMO, especially this year. From deep he barely every finds space and either the FB or wingers normally take the ball on the full. But more or just as importantly his attacking kicking game is woeful. The only option he seems to have is the kick across to the winger which he rarely gets right, it's either too deep and easy to diffuse or too short meaning even if we get the ball it's an easy tackle for the opposition. I don't know why we don't try mix it up even if it was to drop that type of kick a little short for the SR/Centre to attack ala McQueen at Souths.

We must be watching a different bloke, because to me this describes Wigan's kicking with Finch and Leuluai in the team.

Smith, since he joined us, finds ground most of the time unless he's Kicking from his own 20/30 metre line due to the poor ground made by the props etc. His 40/20 rate is second only to Danny Brough (though I haven't checked the stats I think I am correct) and his short kicking was just fine when Pat Richards was in the team(someone who could actually catch).

Re: Smith : Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:01 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

And Smith is the best kicker we've had since Trent Barrett. He does his job just fine. If there are inadequacies at 6 and 9 you can't blame Smith.

I'll keep the current England scrum half, twice running Dream Team scrum half and double winning scrum half thank you.

I'm not sure Smith does do his job just fine though. If he is going to be an organising half back then he needs to really step to the forefront and take control of the big games. Too often on my way home from a big game or after watching it back I'll think back through each player's performance and struggle to remember any major influence from Smith, particularly in the second half as a rule.

The dream team and England selections say more about the quality of the other halves than they do about Smith, having said that I'd swap him for Walsh, Brough, Sinfield (age not withstanding), Dureau or Carney without hesitation. I'm not settled on wanting rid of him, but I would be at least having a look who is on offer if I was IL, perhaps with Smith moving to the bench hooker role if he will stay to do that.

Re: Smith : Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:17 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

The dream team and England selections say more about the quality of the other halves than they do about Smith, having said that I'd swap him for Walsh, Brough, Sinfield (age not withstanding), Dureau or Carney without hesitation. I'm not settled on wanting rid of him, but I would be at least having a look who is on offer if I was IL, perhaps with Smith moving to the bench hooker role if he will stay to do that.

I'd agree with all of those. We wouldn't get Walsh but Sinfield might be a bit left field, I doubt he'd come but if he did come he would certainly replace Matty. However I'd pair Brough/Dureau/Carney with Matty not replace him. It'll be interesting to see how Kelly and Campese go this weekend against us as I wouldn't have minded either of them.

I think Matty has always had his doubters from Saints onwards. I think he's a good pro, a good bloke and a good player. He has his limitations, but by and large he's been an excellent signing for us. I think there are other places in the team that we could improve before Matty needs replacing IMO. (full back, right centre, left wing, stand off, props, hooker for example!!!)

Re: Smith : Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:57 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

I'd agree with all of those. We wouldn't get right but Sinfield might be a bit left field, I doubt he'd come but if he did come he would certainly replace Matty. However I'd pair Brough/Dureau/Carney with Matty not replace him. It'll be interesting to see how Kelly and Campese go this weekend against us as I wouldn't have minded either of them.

I think Matty has always had his doubters from Saints onwards. I think he's a good pro, a good bloke and a good player. He has his limitations, but by and large he's been an excellent signing for us. I think there are other places in the team that we could improve before Matty needs replacing IMO. (full back, right centre, left wing, stand off, props, hooker for example!!!)

We nearly got ourselves onto the same page there until you mentioned right centre, super Gells all the way! He made nearly 200 metres against Brisbane with groin strain btw. I bet the forwards bloody love him for the amount of hard yards he takes off their hands! Prop wise Ithink we will be a lot better if we can get Flower, Clubb, Mossop and Tautai all out there at the same time, Sutton looks a bloody good prospect as well, definitely room for a solid older head if we can get hold of one though, there's an injury or two between those four so we need contingencies (preferably not involving Crosby, who I would loan out to a good Championship side like Leigh for the season)

Re: Smith : Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:51 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

I think Matty has always had his doubters from Saints onwards. I think he's a good pro, a good bloke and a good player. He has his limitations, but by and large he's been an excellent signing for us. I think there are other places in the team that we could improve before Matty needs replacing IMO.

Fully agree. As for not offering enough from unstructured play, sure, he's no Shaun Johnson (who is?), but then, neither is Cooper Cronk, and everyone says he's the bee's knees. Not saying Matty is as good as CC, of course, but still...

All that said, he still needs to take the lead right now, especially playing alongside kids. And Williams did show a few good touches against the Broncos.

Re: Smith : Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:55 am  

I think we need to cut Smith some slack here. He's not had a full pre season after touring with England, he's been in and out of the side with his ban, he's playing alongside a new halfback partner and on the back of a set of props that haven't been all that great so far this year.

He's not been at his best but Smith has money in the bank as far as I'm concerned. He needs to improve, there's no doubt about that but talk of moving him in to 9 or replacing him is OTT.

Re: Smith : Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:38 am  

Blaming Smith for the lack of a more direct half back playing along side him is a little unfair. He does what he does well, he was never signed as a dynamic line breaking half back. Green was more that kind of player, we needed to replace Green with like for like and we haven't, as yet anyway, time will tell for Williams. To blame Smith for that though is pointing the finger at the wrong person. The coach makes the decisions, not Smith.

Re: Smith : Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:55 am  

Playing for England last year Smith looked a reasnable organiser and good kicker. What really let him down was the lack of any running game at all. In that respect he is very similar to Deaccon. Hopefully he can develop one - Adam Reynolds used to look entirely one dimensional with the ball, with a similar focus on kicking and not much else.

Re: Smith : Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:40 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

We nearly got ourselves onto the same page there until you mentioned right centre, super Gells all the way! He made nearly 200 metres against Brisbane with groin strain btw. I bet the forwards bloody love him for the amount of hard yards he takes off their hands! Prop wise Ithink we will be a lot better if we can get Flower, Clubb, Mossop and Tautai all out there at the same time, Sutton looks a bloody good prospect as well, definitely room for a solid older head if we can get hold of one though, there's an injury or two between those four so we need contingencies (preferably not involving Crosby, who I would loan out to a good Championship side like Leigh for the season)

Still think that about Gelling after Sunday?

My worry with him is that this is as good as it gets.

He makes plenty of metres in defence. He can't pass. He chooses daft moments to offload and he drops the ball too often in collision and also in open play. He is erratic and can't be trusted to play consistently well week in and week out... And his hair is stupid.

Re: Smith : Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:21 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote: Still think that about Gelling after Sunday? My worry with him is that this is as good as it gets. He makes plenty of metres in defence. He can't pass. He chooses daft moments to offload and he drops the ball too often in collision and also in open play. He is erratic and can't be trusted to play consistently well week in and week out... And his hair is stupid. I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, BUT Gelling is making more metres than any other Wigan player, he's actually fourth in Superleague and that's without having the task of making easier ground as the wingers and fullbacks do. If you ship him out who is going to make that ground for the team. He actually carries the ball more than any other player in Superleague, his work ethic is excellent, maybe he needs more help from his teammates. Could Gelling play as a wide running second row if and when Sarginson and Thornley are fit? Matty Smith should be doing better. We know he's not a running half so his passing, kicking and tackling have to compensate. His decision making in the last two games has been poor. The attempted drop goal v Brisbane, the bomb on Sunday. On both occasions the ball should have been kicked low and hard to the corners to make the opposition play from deep. http://www.superleague.co.uk/stats/player_stats Tackling, I don't think there are a pair of halfbacks who have to tackle as much as the Wigan pair.

Aboveusonlypie wrote: Still think that about Gelling after Sunday? My worry with him is that this is as good as it gets. He makes plenty of metres in defence. He can't pass. He chooses daft moments to offload and he drops the ball too often in collision and also in open play. He is erratic and can't be trusted to play consistently well week in and week out... And his hair is stupid. I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, BUT Gelling is making more metres than any other Wigan player, he's actually fourth in Superleague and that's without having the task of making easier ground as the wingers and fullbacks do. If you ship him out who is going to make that ground for the team. He actually carries the ball more than any other player in Superleague, his work ethic is excellent, maybe he needs more help from his teammates. Could Gelling play as a wide running second row if and when Sarginson and Thornley are fit? Matty Smith should be doing better. We know he's not a running half so his passing, kicking and tackling have to compensate. His decision making in the last two games has been poor. The attempted drop goal v Brisbane, the bomb on Sunday. On both occasions the ball should have been kicked low and hard to the corners to make the opposition play from deep. http://www.superleague.co.uk/stats/player_stats Tackling, I don't think there are a pair of halfbacks who have to tackle as much as the Wigan pair.