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Re: rl
Post Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:16 pm
Posted by Cruncher on Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:16 pm
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Father Ted wrote:
How can you seriously say that?
Don't we accept by now that we don't have any accurate information relating to existing Wigan salaries, etc.
Our situation re. the cap is not the same as other clubs, so just saying that 'other clubs can do it so we must as well' doesn't mean anything.

No I don't have any info re Wigan players salaries.
However, Smith is no longer at the club and his salary is available.
I do presume that Hock will shortly be given a two year ban and his salary will be available. Contract renewals may bring further money available.
How is our situation re the cap not the same as other clubs? The 2007 "adjustments" will be out of the system end of this year for most players. The only way it could be different is whether IL is now using benefit trusts, image rights and offshore a/cs etc as other clubs do. If he is not then we are at a disadvantage. If he is then surely we are not.
I cannot see with the Smith and Hock situations that plenty monies are not available for signings.
As I said, the players are there and the money is there, so what is the problem?


There isn't necessarily any problem yet. Nowhere is it written that we have to announce new signings at the same time as everyone else.
Post Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:06 pm
Posted by cadoo on Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:06 pm
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Steinlager wrote:
Phelps, Coley and Bailey are all to be retained.


Although this is a joke? I am concerned by how people are believing that this would be a good move :shock:

Two forwards contracts are up at the end of the season and we need to strengthen in those areas as it is a weakness in our team and a reason why we lag behind the top two and it is something that nearly every Wigan fan acknowledges on this board. So why then are people now suggesting just re-signing them is a good move quite frankly baffles me.

We need to replace them with players who will be an improvement. I will stress this again we need improvement and not 'stability'. Especially not in your forwards. Halfbacks I can understand and I would maybe accept this nonsense of 'stability' if we were top of the league and in with a great shout of the grand final but we're not. If we want to get to the top again we're going to have to improve when average players like Coley and Bailey's contracts are up.

The same nonsense 'their form has improved this last season'. Improved from what? Very average! The only reason people have noticed them is because they have actually been above average. Not top draw which you would expect from one of your overseas players in Bailey in particular.

Why in the world we would want to extend Coley and Baileys contracts when players like David Kidwell, Frank Puletua, Carl Webb, Brent Kite are available I don't know.

Just suggests two things to me. Our owner does not know how to handle negotiations and our fans are accepting mediocrity.
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Post Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:11 pm
Posted by pk on Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:11 pm
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dont suppose anything

we let go of all sorts of players last year on suspected mega bucks (barrett, higham) and signed likes of roberts.

when i posted where has the money gone i was shouted down by people saying we have increased contracts of players we already had.

dont assume that players leaving frees up cap space. common sense would say it should but i am in no way convinced our current chairman knows how to successfully use the cap.

we will likely lose smith, fielden, bailey, carmont and sign 2 bog standard sl players.
I've seen them bomb a quarter final, bottle a semi final, finish as league leaders, but I've still, never, seen the Wire win the league
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Post Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:12 pm
Posted by cadoo on Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:12 pm
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wiganstripleL wrote:
if coley is being kept on and were bringing in another prop would that see either prescott/ o'carroll going out on loan and freeing up more cap space??


Why would we want to loan out two brilliant prop forwards who have been hard grafters for the club this season for Andy Coley? Who has only ever turned in above average performances and is pushing the end of his career and has never really out performed Paul Prescott or Eamon O'carroll like a senior player should do.

It's almost as daft as people saying we should loan out Michael McIlorum so we can bring in another halfback and move Leuluai to hooker.
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Post Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:19 pm
Posted by Cruncher on Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:19 pm
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pk wrote:
dont suppose anything

we let go of all sorts of players last year on suspected mega bucks (barrett, higham) and signed likes of roberts.

when i posted where has the money gone i was shouted down by people saying we have increased contracts of players we already had.

dont assume that players leaving frees up cap space. common sense would say it should but i am in no way convinced our current chairman knows how to successfully use the cap.

we will likely lose smith, fielden, bailey, carmont and sign 2 bog standard sl players.


I think you could safely argue that he knows how to use it better than the previous one.

And please don't just dismiss this as an irrelevant point. Mo's miscalculation almost got us relegated out of existance.
Post Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:43 pm
Posted by clifford on Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:43 pm
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cadoo wrote:
Although this is a joke? I am concerned by how people are believing that this would be a good move :shock:

Two forwards contracts are up at the end of the season and we need to strengthen in those areas as it is a weakness in our team and a reason why we lag behind the top two and it is something that nearly every Wigan fan acknowledges on this board. So why then are people now suggesting just re-signing them is a good move quite frankly baffles me.

We need to replace them with players who will be an improvement. I will stress this again we need improvement and not 'stability'. Especially not in your forwards. Halfbacks I can understand and I would maybe accept this nonsense of 'stability' if we were top of the league and in with a great shout of the grand final but we're not. If we want to get to the top again we're going to have to improve when average players like Coley and Bailey's contracts are up.

The same nonsense 'their form has improved this last season'. Improved from what? Very average! The only reason people have noticed them is because they have actually been above average. Not top draw which you would expect from one of your overseas players in Bailey in particular.

Why in the world we would want to extend Coley and Baileys contracts when players like David Kidwell, Frank Puletua, Carl Webb, Brent Kite are available I don't know.

Just suggests two things to me. Our owner does not know how to handle negotiations and our fans are accepting mediocrity.


you might as well stay at home next year then. coley has been offered a new contract and has to choose between wigan , wire and saints by monday where he wants to go. I believe he wants to stay at wigan. that is his first choice by a very good source. sorry cadoo but dont come next year :lol:
Post Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:45 pm
Posted by [Gareth] on Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:45 pm
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surely carmont will be kept on? he was the best centre we had since renouf until gleeson was signed
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Post Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:11 pm
Posted by Bill_Barlow on Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:11 pm
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clifford wrote:
you might as well stay at home next year then. coley has been offered a new contract and has to choose between wigan , wire and saints by monday where he wants to go. I believe he wants to stay at wigan. that is his first choice by a very good source. sorry cadoo but dont come next year :lol:


Why would he go to Saints or Wire? He'd be about 87th choice i wouldnt even imagine they would be in for him. Id let him go anywere and run with Fielden Feka Prescott Eamon and Mossop if we didnt sign a new prop.
Post Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:20 pm
Posted by thepriestman85 on Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:20 pm
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Bill_Barlow wrote:
Why would he go to Saints or Wire? He'd be about 87th choice i wouldnt even imagine they would be in for him. Id let him go anywere and run with Fielden Feka Prescott Eamon and Mossop if we didnt sign a new prop.


Coley would be an excellent signing for both of these teams as he’s a perfect third choice prop who will do a hard stint in a team with little reward or recognition much in the same way Fozzard used to do.

He’d fit right in at Saints when Cayless leaves and with Graham, Pauleta & Mary around him he’d excel there just like Fozzard did. Same goes for Warrington if they replace Rauhihi with Coley as he’d offer some graft when Morley and Carvell go off.

Coley gets a lot of undue criticism on here for me and I’d take him on a one year deal with a further year in Wigan’s favour at the expense of O’Carroll and still try to sign Webb. We could then replace Fielden with LMS the season after meaning the loss of O’Carroll potentialy won’t be that bad to handle.

Five front line props is the way forward for me and

LMS
Webb
Coley
Feka
Prescott

Is a good line up
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Post Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:24 pm
Posted by Bill_Barlow on Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:24 pm
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thepriestman85 wrote:
Coley would be an excellent signing for both of these teams as he’s a perfect third choice prop who will do a hard stint in a team with little reward or recognition much in the same way Fozzard used to do.

He’d fit right in at Saints when Cayless leaves and with Graham, Pauleta & Mary around him he’d excel there just like Fozzard did. Same goes for Warrington if they replace Rauhihi with Coley as he’d offer some graft when Morley and Carvell go off.

Coley gets a lot of undue criticism on here for me and I’d take him on a one year deal with a further year in Wigan’s favour at the expense of O’Carroll and still try to sign Webb. We could then replace Fielden with LMS the season after meaning the loss of O’Carroll potentialy won’t be that bad to handle.

Five front line props is the way forward for me and

LMS
Webb
Coley
Feka
Prescott

Is a good line up


I agree you need 5 and my 5 for next year would be Fielden Feka Prescott Eamonn and Mossop before Coley. I dont see this hes the perfect 3rd choice prop at all. Id be happy to see him go, get a rough and tough character in and loan out Eamonn or Mossop.
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