WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Rumours and signings v9
Re: Rumours and signings v9
Post Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:07 am
Posted by WiganBurt on Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:07 am
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Cruncher wrote:
I'm afraid the only thing currently clear as day is that the Wigan class of 2018 is currently an improvement on the Wigan class of 2017 (which is not saying a lot, I know, but it kind of disproves your point that last year's mismanagement is bearing bad fruit this year).

The above post is a perfect example of what I said before, namely that some fans are basically inventing problems for which there is no real evidence, and these inventions are then becoming a narrative which others are treating as fact.

It's exactly the sort of armchair know-all daftness that so poisoned the atmosphere on the other site.


so if Sam, Oliver, Bateman and Sutton leave you'll be ok with that, and Wigan will go onwards and upwards towards this years' LL, GF and CC final with a nucleus for next year without Tommy and potentially also missing Lockers?! yes, absolutely nothing to do with the clubs management at all.

you are clearly 100% missing my point. i'm agreeing with you that it is my OPINION, is that what a forum is for?! for debate, to air ones views etc? perhaps I missed the memo...

my point is, why are these players wanting to jump ship, being pushed as some would believe or having their agents hold us to ransom? why are the likes of TT, Tomkins and Williams on mega bucks when the likes of Clubb, Powell, Escare and Burgess are probably on a pittance in comparison? There seems to be no consistency in wages per player. who is making these decisions, and more importantly why are wigan allowing players to dictate the club and not the other way around? if you aren't even slightly concerned about this then I do worry for you.

however, should the likes of Bateman and Gildart stay with Wigan, i'll be ecstatic. I just don't it to be at a cost to other players or the club. the fact that is one of my worries surely shows i'm genuinely concerned and not on some mission to oust the management.
Re: Rumours and signings v9
Post Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:10 am
Posted by Phuzzy on Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:10 am
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I've said for some tine that the negativity on these boards sucks the joy out of supporting your team so I'm totally in agreement with Cruncher, Motor et al. The problem is, it's generally the same people who have "fallen out of love with the game" who are excessively and often unnecessarily negative. It's as though they aren't satisfied with being that way themselves and will only be happy once everyone else has seen the error of their ways and joined them bitching and moaning.

The problem of course, as Cruncher quite rightly says, is that this negative spin becomes part of the narrative and starts to infect the board as a whole. Case in point? The term "happy clapper". Can someone actually tell me what's wrong with supporting your club through thick and thin? I was brought up to believe that's what 'fans' do.

Anyone who's bothered to attend matches this season will know that there's been a massive improvement and some very enjoyable rugby played. I, along with most others going to games, have usually walked out with a big smile on my face. That's why I love rugby and exactly the reason I go to watch. Yet, for some, last season's negativity persists.

Surely it's time for those who no longer go to give it a rest and let those of us who still support the club enjoy what we're doing without constantly having to field the barrage of negativity on these boards? I get it... You've broken up with the game and it hurts and you'll only be satisfied once everyone knows how great a fan you once were and how it's totally the games fault and you're sorry. There... I've said it all for you. No need to keep banging on about it.

Now can we please have this forum back as a place to discuss rugby with like minded people? Thanks. Much appreciated.
Last edited by Phuzzy on Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Rumours and signings v9
Post Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:12 am
Posted by Rogues Gallery on Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:12 am
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Phuzzy wrote:
I've said for some tine that the negativity on these boards sucks the joy out of supporting your team so I'm totally in agreement with Cruncher, Motor et al. The problem is, it's generally the same people who have "fallen out of love with the game" who are excessively and often unnecessarily negative. It's as though they aren't satisfied with being that way themselves and will only be happy once everyone else has seen the error of their ways and joined them bitching and moaning.

The problem of course, as Cruncher quite rightly says, is that this negative spin becomes part of the narrative and starts to infect the board as a whole. Case in point? The term "happy clapper". Can someone actually tell me what's wrong with supporting your club through thick and thin? I was brought up to believe that's what 'fans' do.

Anyone who's bothered to attend matches this season will know that there's been a massive improvement and some very enjoyable rugby played. I, along with most others going to games, have usually walked out with a big smile on my face. That's why I love rugby and exactly the reason I go to watch. Yet, for some, last season's negativity persists.

Surely it's time for those who no longer go to give it a rest and let those of us who still support the club enjoy what we're doing without constantly having to field the constant negativity on these boards? I get it... You've broken up with the game and it hurts and you'll only be satisfied once everyone knows how great a fan you once were and how it's totally the games fault and you're sorry. There... I've said it all for you. No need to keep banging on about it.

Now can we please have this forum back as a place to discuss rugby with like minded people? Thanks. Much appreciated.


Amen, brother :BOW:
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Re: Rumours and signings v9
Post Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:48 am
Posted by Cruncher on Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:48 am
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WiganBurt wrote:
so if Sam, Oliver, Bateman and Sutton leave you'll be ok with that, and Wigan will go onwards and upwards towards this years' LL, GF and CC final with a nucleus for next year without Tommy and potentially also missing Lockers?! yes, absolutely nothing to do with the clubs management at all.

you are clearly 100% missing my point. i'm agreeing with you that it is my OPINION, is that what a forum is for?! for debate, to air ones views etc? perhaps I missed the memo...

my point is, why are these players wanting to jump ship, being pushed as some would believe or having their agents hold us to ransom? why are the likes of TT, Tomkins and Williams on mega bucks when the likes of Clubb, Powell, Escare and Burgess are probably on a pittance in comparison? There seems to be no consistency in wages per player. who is making these decisions, and more importantly why are wigan allowing players to dictate the club and not the other way around? if you aren't even slightly concerned about this then I do worry for you.

however, should the likes of Bateman and Gildart stay with Wigan, i'll be ecstatic. I just don't it to be at a cost to other players or the club. the fact that is one of my worries surely shows i'm genuinely concerned and not on some mission to oust the management.


I get it that you're a genuine fan. But these concerns don't really stack up. On one hand you're angry that some players are being forced out (presumably because of their wage demands), and on the other you're angry that some players are on megabucks.

To be angry about both of those at the same time is a bit self-contradictory.

And all on the basis of guesswork. Escare and Burgess are on a pittance?
Re: Rumours and signings v9
Post Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:31 pm
Posted by WiganBurt on Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:31 pm
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Phuzzy wrote:
I've said for some tine that the negativity on these boards sucks the joy out of supporting your team so I'm totally in agreement with Cruncher, Motor et al. The problem is, it's generally the same people who have "fallen out of love with the game" who are excessively and often unnecessarily negative. It's as though they aren't satisfied with being that way themselves and will only be happy once everyone else has seen the error of their ways and joined them bitching and moaning.

The problem of course, as Cruncher quite rightly says, is that this negative spin becomes part of the narrative and starts to infect the board as a whole. Case in point? The term "happy clapper". Can someone actually tell me what's wrong with supporting your club through thick and thin? I was brought up to believe that's what 'fans' do.

Anyone who's bothered to attend matches this season will know that there's been a massive improvement and some very enjoyable rugby played. I, along with most others going to games, have usually walked out with a big smile on my face. That's why I love rugby and exactly the reason I go to watch. Yet, for some, last season's negativity persists.

Surely it's time for those who no longer go to give it a rest and let those of us who still support the club enjoy what we're doing without constantly having to field the barrage of negativity on these boards? I get it... You've broken up with the game and it hurts and you'll only be satisfied once everyone knows how great a fan you once were and how it's totally the games fault and you're sorry. There... I've said it all for you. No need to keep banging on about it.

Now can we please have this forum back as a place to discuss rugby with like minded people? Thanks. Much appreciated.


again may I reiterate that I am using this site exactly as it is intended, to be used to discuss topics no matter opinion. i'm doing nothing wrong, if you don't like it, don't read it / comment on it. that's your issue, not mine.

everyone is assuming I don't like the game, don't go to games, have fallen out with rugby and don't like wigan - at no point have I said I am unhappy with the performance of the club as a whole last year or this. at no point have I said i'm not happy with the improvement on this year in comparison to last year. at no point have I claimed to be calling for the fans to turn against the club in revolt.

if you bothered to read my posts properly instead of trying to get the upper hand with your sarcastic, underhand comments about your assumption of what kind of person or fan I am then you'd understand what i'm saying and why.

something is not right at wigan, consider the trips to London, consider the trip to Oz, consider the fact that wigan is making money hand over fist, then wonder why we are not trying to retain the services of Sam. like has been mentioned, we can offer him what we want to retain him, so why aren't we? step back and let it sink in, he may not be who he once was but he has shown even in the last few games how important a player he is for us. Wonder why we did not replace MM or FPN with anyone other than Hamlin who is surely on a low wage, yet the former were two of our highest earners. we brought Sarge in for Gells who again must be on less than what Gells was or at best equivalent to.

why are we (rumoured to be) allowing players to be offloaded mid-season like Sutton. why is one of our best young centres being strongly linked with a move to SL rivals?

in summary, if wigan has the money it should have, then we wouldn't have this constant rumour mill circling around us, nor the uncertainty some fans like myself have over why some of our better players don't appear to want to play for us. its not as though there are players of the same ilk available for the same money.

feel free to DISCUSS!

instead of lambasting my views, try discussing the content instead of holding your little fella in one hand and typing with the other.
Re: Rumours and signings v9
Post Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:40 pm
Posted by Rogues Gallery on Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:40 pm
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WiganBurt.

If you think Wigan are making money hand over fist I suggest you take a close look at the accounts.
Lenagan has subsisdised the club with millions over his tenure.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history
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Re: Rumours and signings v9
Post Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:56 pm
Posted by Geoff on Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:56 pm
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WiganBurt wrote:
again may I reiterate that I am using this site exactly as it is intended, to be used to discuss topics no matter opinion. i'm doing nothing wrong, if you don't like it, don't read it / comment on it. that's your issue, not mine.

everyone is assuming I don't like the game, don't go to games, have fallen out with rugby and don't like wigan - at no point have I said I am unhappy with the performance of the club as a whole last year or this. at no point have I said i'm not happy with the improvement on this year in comparison to last year. at no point have I claimed to be calling for the fans to turn against the club in revolt.

if you bothered to read my posts properly instead of trying to get the upper hand with your sarcastic, underhand comments about your assumption of what kind of person or fan I am then you'd understand what i'm saying and why.

something is not right at wigan, consider the trips to London, consider the trip to Oz, consider the fact that wigan is making money hand over fist, then wonder why we are not trying to retain the services of Sam. like has been mentioned, we can offer him what we want to retain him, so why aren't we? step back and let it sink in, he may not be who he once was but he has shown even in the last few games how important a player he is for us. Wonder why we did not replace MM or FPN with anyone other than Hamlin who is surely on a low wage, yet the former were two of our highest earners. we brought Sarge in for Gells who again must be on less than what Gells was or at best equivalent to.

why are we (rumoured to be) allowing players to be offloaded mid-season like Sutton. why is one of our best young centres being strongly linked with a move to SL rivals?

in summary, if wigan has the money it should have, then we wouldn't have this constant rumour mill circling around us, nor the uncertainty some fans like myself have over why some of our better players don't appear to want to play for us. its not as though there are players of the same ilk available for the same money.

feel free to DISCUSS!

instead of lambasting my views, try discussing the content instead of holding your little fella in one hand and typing with the other.


we're not "making money hand over fist", as you would know if you'd bothered to substantiate your opinion with a quick look at the publicly available accounts, which show Ian Lenagan subsidising us year on year. Yes, it is his aim, quite rightly, for us to be at least breaking even, but we're not there yet.
Re: Rumours and signings v9
Post Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:34 pm
Posted by WiganBurt on Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:34 pm
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i must apologise for not being able to understand Accounts and Finance! but thanks to both of you for picking up on the one tiny detail in all of my comments and jumping onto it like a tramp on a butty. you must be so proud!

if anything, you have backed up my argument anyway... how come all of these grand ventures aren't producing us with additional income? didn't the Oz trip help us make £500k? where's that gone? why are we even bothering with that type of venture in the first place, why is the club so keen on becoming a business more than a sport club? why are they so keen on bringing in additional income?

don't start me with all this, "well it is a business" malarkey, I don't see other clubs having to resort to such things to keep afloat as regular as wigan.
Re: Rumours and signings v9
Post Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:40 pm
Posted by MadDogg on Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:40 pm
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WiganBurt the accounts published relate to the previous financial year. When the next accounts are published we will know the financial impact of the Oz trip.

Wigan have previously stated that after a 600k loss last year (the loss of a major sponsor being the main reason for such a loss) they hope to be close to breaking even this year.
Re: Rumours and signings v9
Post Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:44 pm
Posted by DaveO on Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:44 pm
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Phuzzy wrote:

The problem of course, as Cruncher quite rightly says, is that this negative spin becomes part of the narrative and starts to infect the board as a whole. Case in point? The term "happy clapper". Can someone actually tell me what's wrong with supporting your club through thick and thin? I was brought up to believe that's what 'fans' do.


What do you mean by supporting the club? The implication of the above is you equate supporting the club through thick and thin to blind acceptance that everything it does is correct and that those who don't are not supporting the club just because they have dared to voice criticism. If that is not correct and you also criticize the club on occasion, just what is your objection to others doing so? I am sure there are plenty of those you are railing against who are season ticket holders, go to games, subscribe to Wigan TV and the lotto etc so are just as much a supporter as you are. They will also leave the ground with a smile on their faces after a good win but if they then come on here and dare to suggest we'd be even better if we sacked the coach (obvious example) you seem to take personal offence.

Some of the hoops some people jump thought to come up with excuses for club or coach doing whatever is the point of debate is truly bizarre at times. I am absolutely convinced if the club beats off Les Cats for Samt T it will be hailed as a victory and yet if it doesn't the same people will be backing it to the hilt as the right move. If he does go some will go even further and to justify this and will be posting Sam is mercenary, a potential crock, a bully (think that was posted on the other forum) and so on when they never ever said any of this until it looked like he might be leaving!

Surely it's time for those who no longer go to give it a rest and let those of us who still support the club enjoy what we're doing without constantly having to field the barrage of negativity on these boards? I get it... You've broken up with the game and it hurts and you'll only be satisfied once everyone knows how great a fan you once were and how it's totally the games fault and you're sorry. There... I've said it all for you. No need to keep banging on about it.

Now can we please have this forum back as a place to discuss rugby with like minded people? Thanks. Much appreciated.


Well if all you want is a load of people agreeing with each other about how brilliant the club is the forum will die. The traffic on here is way down on what it used to be and in my opinion a big reason for that is the attacking of the posters themselves as opposed to debating their opinions, often putting words words into their mouths via straw man arguments. Perhaps as a mod I should start cracking down on that sort of behaviour. Even those long standing posters who on occasion dare to voice a negative opinion tread on eggshells and often feel the need to add something positive in case they just offended the thought police, it sticks out like sore thumb.
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