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Re: Undervaluing our own produced players
Post Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:09 pm
Posted by Ziggy Stardust on Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:09 pm
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Grimmy wrote:
Did you miss Leeds winning eight Grand Finals, two Challenge Cups and three World Club Challenges since '04, heavily relying on home grown talent throughout?


Keith Senior, Marcus Bai, Chris Mckenna, Ali Lauatiti, David Furner, Willie Poaching, Barrie McDermott, Brent Webb, Scott Donald, Clinton Toopi, Kylie Leuluai, Jamie Peacock, Gareth Ellis, Luke Burgess, Danny Buderus, Brett Delaney, Darrell Griffin, Shaun Lunt, Joel Moon, Mitch Garbutt, Adam Cuthbertson, Tom Briscoe, Matt Parcell, Brett Ferres.

Off the top of my head, either big signings from the UK or from overseas that have played and made a great difference in the grand finals Leeds have won.

The key is to sign good players to complement your homegrown lads, we don't.
Re: Undervaluing our own produced players
Post Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:36 pm
Posted by Jukesays on Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:36 pm
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Ziggy Stardust wrote:
Keith Senior, Marcus Bai, Chris Mckenna, Ali Lauatiti, David Furner, Willie Poaching, Barrie McDermott, Brent Webb, Scott Donald, Clinton Toopi, Kylie Leuluai, Jamie Peacock, Gareth Ellis, Luke Burgess, Danny Buderus, Brett Delaney, Darrell Griffin, Shaun Lunt, Joel Moon, Mitch Garbutt, Adam Cuthbertson, Tom Briscoe, Matt Parcell, Brett Ferres.

Off the top of my head, either big signings from the UK or from overseas that have played and made a great difference in the grand finals Leeds have won.

The key is to sign good players to complement your homegrown lads, we don't.


Just out at moment, if nobodies done it before I get back later this afternoon ill name equally as many that Wigan have signed since Keith senior signed for Leeds!
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Posted by Ziggy Stardust on Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:20 pm
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Jukesays wrote:
Just out at moment, if nobodies done it before I get back later this afternoon ill name equally as many that Wigan have signed since Keith senior signed for Leeds!


Name as many as you like, i started from 2004 when Leeds started their Grand Final winning run, so maybe start at 2010 as we were hopeless for the best part of a decade before then.
Posted by Jukesays on Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:30 pm
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Ziggy Stardust wrote:
Name as many as you like, i started from 2004 when Leeds started their Grand Final winning run, so maybe start at 2010 as we were hopeless for the best part of a decade before then.


And isn't that point proved?
And why were we pants?
Because we spent too much money on too few big name players that didn't work and until 2008/2009 didn't invest/protect/pay etc the youth coming though.
We didn't have a squad big enough to complete if those big name players didn't work or got injured.
And we're too quick to bin off youngsters if they weren't world beaters by 19/20/21
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Posted by Levrier on Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:48 pm
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Other than for money reasons why do we have an u16/u19th split? Did u16/u18/u20/1 not cover all of the bases? I remember amature clubs running colts A and B teams on a shoe string. I am aware that having too many lads can impact local amature sport but how many later developers are lost completely to the game because of lack of opportunities.
Posted by Ziggy Stardust on Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:53 pm
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Jukesays wrote:
And isn't that point proved?
And why were we pants?
Because we spent too much money on too few big name players that didn't work and until 2008/2009 didn't invest/protect/pay etc the youth coming though.
We didn't have a squad big enough to complete if those big name players didn't work or got injured.
And we're too quick to bin off youngsters if they weren't world beaters by 19/20/21


Yeah, we threw too much money at average overseas players, but now we are throwing too much money at average homegrown players.

Look at our current signed in players 'Sarg, Clubb, Flower, Isa, Tautai, Bateman, Hamlin' Bang average apart from Bateman, these players are supposed to compliment our homegrown but how can they when they are average joe's.

We have two Marquee player slots, two slots where you can sign a player on 1 million a year if you wish with only 100 grand counting on the cap, and we have ST and GW in those slots. They both should be on a good wage but not a Marquee wage.

The cap management is terrible, we are spending more than any other club but i can't see where the money is going.

We do have some good young players in the team but they are not being helped by the really poor recruitment from outside the club.

It as if Waney doesn't want anyone else in the club if they have a big ego or different view to his practices.
Re: Undervaluing our own produced players
Post Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:08 pm
Posted by Geoff on Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:08 pm
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Ziggy Stardust wrote:
Yeah, we threw too much money at average overseas players, but now we are throwing too much money at average homegrown players.

Look at our current signed in players 'Sarg, Clubb, Flower, Isa, Tautai, Bateman, Hamlin' Bang average apart from Bateman, these players are supposed to compliment our homegrown but how can they when they are average joe's.

We have two Marquee player slots, two slots where you can sign a player on 1 million a year if you wish with only 100 grand counting on the cap, and we have ST and GW in those slots. They both should be on a good wage but not a Marquee wage.

The cap management is terrible, we are spending more than any other club but i can't see where the money is going.

We do have some good young players in the team but they are not being helped by the really poor recruitment from outside the club.

It as if Waney doesn't want anyone else in the club if they have a big ego or different view to his practices.


But "big signings" are few and far between at any SL club, and from those few, even fewer can be counted a success. SL clubs won't let their own superstars go to other SL clubs without a very good reason, and available NRL stars are either unaffordable, leave early for "personal reasons" or come with baggage attached.
Posted by Jeff the God of Biscuits on Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:35 pm
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Last Son of Wigan wrote:
Not sure on your point here, perhaps I've misunderstood.

Leeds only develop their own? They've had a good mix of their own talent and signings... they've got the mix right for the most part.


I think his point was that Bradford spent big money on Harris, and it pretty much doomed them and the club.

Leeds built a team around 5 or 6 outstanding local talents and built a dynasty from that.

It's not quite as cut and dry as that, but I believe this was the point being made.
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Posted by Cherry_&_White on Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:34 pm
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Ziggy Stardust wrote:
Yeah, we threw too much money at average overseas players, but now we are throwing too much money at average homegrown players.

Look at our current signed in players 'Sarg, Clubb, Flower, Isa, Tautai, Bateman, Hamlin' Bang average apart from Bateman, these players are supposed to compliment our homegrown but how can they when they are average joe's.

We have two Marquee player slots, two slots where you can sign a player on 1 million a year if you wish with only 100 grand counting on the cap, and we have ST and GW in those slots. They both should be on a good wage but not a Marquee wage.

The cap management is terrible, we are spending more than any other club but i can't see where the money is going.

We do have some good young players in the team but they are not being helped by the really poor recruitment from outside the club.

It as if Waney doesn't want anyone else in the club if they have a big ego or different view to his practices.


Not sure how you put Flower in the bang average bracket when he's achieved more than plenty of the Leeds players in your list.

For that matter, I'd argue Sarge has had a bigger impact in winning trophys than some of those Leeds names, Ferres, Griffin & Garbutt (so far) to name a few.
Posted by Last Son of Wigan on Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:14 am
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Jeff the God of Biscuits wrote:
I think his point was that Bradford spent big money on Harris, and it pretty much doomed them and the club.

Leeds built a team around 5 or 6 outstanding local talents and built a dynasty from that.

It's not quite as cut and dry as that, but I believe this was the point being made.


Thanks Jeff, I honestly couldn't understand his point as Leeds, to me, as a good mixture of local and signings.

They had the likes of Sinfield, Burrow, Danny Mags, but also brought in the likes of Peacock. Webb, Hardaker, Senior, Kyle to name few.
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