The decline of the local derby : Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:07 pm  

How did you feel about our fixture this week?

was it

(a) a game against a side we expect to be in the bottom four, so one of our best chances of picking up points albeit with no guarantees as we have found in the past

(b) the latest in the series of a historic fixture between two local rivals, which has its own importance above and beyond just being for two league points or to progress in a cup

Up until the formation of SL and Widnes being excluded, I would have thought most of us would say (b).

When they got promoted and returned in 2002 after 6 years away, it would have also been (b). Remember the build up, controversy and interest around the derbies in the Cullen years.

Then they got relegated in 2005, and came back in 2012 after another 6 years out. Since then the derby has just been in gradual decline and now, it feels like most people would answer (a) to that question above.

Is there any real difference now between how we feel about a fixture with Widnes compared to say Hull KR?

Re: The decline of the local derby : Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:48 pm  

It’s a bit different for me. I cannot speak as a Warringtonian as I’m not one. I’m a Mancunian and have lived in Manchester all my life bar three years. I think I’ve met one or two people from Widnes, ever. They are just another team to me. I don’t hold that feeling of “rival” “derby” “enemy” like Warringtonians would do of them and Chemics towards Warrington. Widnes is not local to me.

Wigan are the “rival” in my Wire world. Mainly due to being the biggest and tastiest games Wire have been involved in over the years.

Don’t forget though that before the 1950s the big local rivalry was Wire v Wigan. It was only from the mid 1950s onwards that Saints registered on Wigan’s radar as they weren’t a club worth taking notice of until then.

Re: The decline of the local derby : Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:11 pm  

Local derbies purely based on geography have never really appeared on my radar.

Leigh, for example - I don't feel the same rivalry (disdain actually) as I do for Wigan but that is based on Wigan's profile and success, rather than thw proximity of the towns.

Everyone wants to be the top dog in their own backyard and any rivalry I feel for Saints, Wigan, the desire to bloody their nose, put them in their place etc. is bases on wanting to see Wires eatablished as the north-west's no. 1.

If Wigan were to be relegated would I feel the same rivalry towards them? No, but here's hoping I can put the theory to the test one day.

Re: The decline of the local derby : Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:25 pm  

Psychedelic Casual wrote:

It’s a bit different for me. I cannot speak as a Warringtonian as I’m not one. I’m a Mancunian and have lived in Manchester all my life bar three years. I think I’ve met one or two people from Widnes, ever. They are just another team to me. I don’t hold that feeling of “rival” “derby” “enemy” like Warringtonians would do of them and Chemics towards Warrington. Widnes is not local to me.

Wigan are the “rival” in my Wire world. Mainly due to being the biggest and tastiest games Wire have been involved in over the years.

Don’t forget though that before the 1950s the big local rivalry was Wire v Wigan. It was only from the mid 1950s onwards that Saints registered on Wigan’s radar as they weren’t a club worth taking notice of until then.

I bet Warrington still haven't registered on Wigan's radar so the Wire-Wigan rivalry means a lot more to us than to them.

Wigan care about Saints first, then their other big club rival Leeds, before it comes to us. They probably see us like Hull, a rivalry worth taking interest in when we are challenging them for trophies and in big finals but when we have our periods of mediocrity they won't take much interest.

Re: The decline of the local derby : Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:31 pm  

It could be argued the importanxe to fans started to decline when the fixtures changed from boxing day new years day.

Re: The decline of the local derby : Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:34 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

I bet Warrington still haven't registered on Wigan's radar so the Wire-Wigan rivalry means a lot more to us than to them.

Wigan care about Saints first, then their other big club rival Leeds, before it comes to us. They probably see us like Hull, a rivalry worth taking interest in when we are challenging them for trophies and in big finals but when we have our periods of mediocrity they won't take much interest.

That’s fair and most likely true

Re: The decline of the local derby : Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:39 pm  

B for me but nowhere near as much as when I was a kid. The fixtures now I want to win more are the Saints /Wigan games. I never want to lose to Widnes ever that’s the kid inside me still but I won’t get peed off as much if we lost like I use to.

Re: The decline of the local derby : Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:41 pm  

For me, there's several reasons this game has lost it's bite.

Demographic. Stadia have a lot more women/kids in them now, compared to pre SL. There's a lack of atmosphere/edge in the ground.

Since SL's inception in 96, Widnes have largely been poop. They're almost an irrelevance, now. Look at that side, and it's "never heard of, never heard of, crap, kid, never heard of". Compare this to what I've witnessed in nearly 40 years of this fixture. Tamati, Lyndon, Gregory, Burke, Myler, Offiah, Sorenson, Shearer, Hulme(s), Mckenzie Wright etc.

It was on the telly. There's a few hundreds/thousands knocked off the attendance.

Other games now have more relevance. When I was a teenager, Saints coming to Wilderspool was no bigger than a Wakefield visit. In the last 20 years, it now only rivals Wigan games to some Wire fans, after several heartbreaking defeats, Eddie Hemmings' hoodoo obsession, and our recent turnaround since Knowsley Road was demolished

The sport is a poorer quality, compared to yesteryear.

Just my thoughts. Neither wrong nor right.

Re: The decline of the local derby : Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:45 pm  

I'm with Phyc on this. Pies is it for me.
"Wigan week" as Paul Cullen phrased it.
Followed by the Travelling folk.
Widnes don't get me steamed up any more than Leigh or Salford.

Re: The decline of the local derby : Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:40 pm  

For me personally, I just see Widnes as just another game, it's not a game I particularly look forward to,to be honest nor do I lose any sleep if they beat us.. It maybe because Widnes spent a number of years outside the top flight? I'm not sure, but I look forward to the Wigan and Saints games more to be honest I just see them as bigger games for us..