Re: Tony smith to leave Warrington- Official : Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:07 pm  

ratticusfinch wrote:

Bet your lifeu after the two cc wins the main aim was to win a GF, something he fsiled to do. I actually believr even TS himself sees not winning it as a big failure

Spot on, rf

Blowing a 14 point lead, conceding 30 unanswered points in 2013 merely underlines this. We bottled it, that night. We switched off, the moment Monaghan went off injured. By the time Ratchford went off, we were already "rabbits in the headlights".

Professional, hard nosed teams don't do that.
That's why Leeds, Wigan, Saints and Bradford have a stranglehold on the GF.
The new coach needs to be RUTHLESS. Not a glorified social worker

Re: Tony smith to leave Warrington- Official : Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:20 pm  

That 2013 final was when i first started to doubt TS. You see the likes of wigan, saints and leeds overcome adversity in big games....it even inspires them to perform better and they get organised quickly. Our reshuffling in that final was absolutely shambolic and we seeemed rudderless and to be making it up as we went along. It was very, very poor on the spot management.

Re: Tony smith to leave Warrington- Official : Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:27 pm  

[quote="Wire Weaver"]

What I'm saying is: Is it so bad to want success at the expense of champagne rugby. I look back fondly on 80-0 hammerings of some teams in 2011, but I would look more fondly on one or two grand final victories. Yes, I'm jealous of Wigan's recent success albeit with cheap-lager-style-rugby rather than Don Perignon stuff...

Re: Smith to leave official, all comments in here : Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:42 pm  

NtW wrote: Load of rubbish. The 'single target' was not winning the GF: in 2009 we went crackers winning a semi-final against Wigan. To win the final was enough (at the time) to satisfy any Wire fan under 40 who had never seen they like. Only after retaining the cup (first Wire team ever), a first table topping in over a generation, another cup and a grand final appearance did the 'single target' become winning the GF. To suggest Smith failed is ridiculous. He made Warrington not just contenders, but winners of major trophies: that was the key objective. You look a bit daft with statements like that IMO. In 2009 at the last home game of the season Tony took the microphone after the game and said that "next season we will be going for both" Even as late as last year Smith goes on record to state that we are aiming for the treble. http://www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... -cup-final To suggest this club's main objective was not winning a GF in the 8 years since his appointment then cannot be correct. Like it or not Smith failed in this objective. On the plus side that team in 2011 was the best I have seen in 37 years of watching and will always be grateful to Tony for that. I think his tenure can be looked as as successful overall. But it's a shame he didn't leave the club and squad in a better condition than he found it, with the GF monkey off our back.

NtW wrote: Load of rubbish. The 'single target' was not winning the GF: in 2009 we went crackers winning a semi-final against Wigan. To win the final was enough (at the time) to satisfy any Wire fan under 40 who had never seen they like. Only after retaining the cup (first Wire team ever), a first table topping in over a generation, another cup and a grand final appearance did the 'single target' become winning the GF. To suggest Smith failed is ridiculous. He made Warrington not just contenders, but winners of major trophies: that was the key objective. You look a bit daft with statements like that IMO. In 2009 at the last home game of the season Tony took the microphone after the game and said that "next season we will be going for both" Even as late as last year Smith goes on record to state that we are aiming for the treble. http://www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... -cup-final To suggest this club's main objective was not winning a GF in the 8 years since his appointment then cannot be correct. Like it or not Smith failed in this objective. On the plus side that team in 2011 was the best I have seen in 37 years of watching and will always be grateful to Tony for that. I think his tenure can be looked as as successful overall. But it's a shame he didn't leave the club and squad in a better condition than he found it, with the GF monkey off our back.

Re: Smith to leave official, all comments in here : Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:56 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

In 2009 at the last home game of the season Tony took the microphone after the game and said that "next season we will be going for both"

To suggest this club's target was not winning a GF in the intervening 8 years since then cannot be correct. Like it or not Smith failed in this target.

You said the club's "single target" for 8 years was winning the GF, and used Smith's quote that "we will be going for both" as your 'proof'

I don't dispute that Smith failed to win a GF (!), and I'm pretty sure he will see this as a failure on his part. But I think you need to get over this obsession with the GF. Warrington were a successful team under Smith despite not winning a championship.

Edit: posted before you changed your original post, but I still find your argument incoherent (in one post you say he failed in his single objective, and in another reckon his tenure was successful?!?)

Re: Tony smith to leave Warrington- Official : Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:03 pm  

easyWire wrote:

I think it should have been made 8 games into the season when it was clear we couldn't turn things around.

That way a new coach would have had the rest of the season to secure at least the Top 8 and a good cup run (a la Smith 2009) and then use the off-season to work from a clean slate and have a good first full year in charge.

Look at where we are now - no signings and struggling to get a coach all because of the uncertainty of whether we'd be playing in the top flight.

The Leeds - Salford double weekend should have been the absolute final straw. In the raw emotion of the moment I'd have probably done it sooner still, to be honest. But Wakefield pretty much confirmed the inevitable.

Cockle-warming that we wanted to let him down gently, but the result is that we are likely to have another "transitional year" to go with 2014 and 2015.

Re: Tony smith to leave Warrington- Official : Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:38 pm  

Brought more success to this club than anyone before him. Took us from slightly above average to completely mixing it and sometimes dominating the big few.

Couldn't quite take us to GF glory but 3 appearances, 4 challenge cup appearances, winning 3, and 2 league leaders shields isn't a bad haul from what we had ever had in the same amount of time. Takes us to within 80 minutes of all 3 pieces of silverware one year and then out the door the next.

Shame it had to end this way. Only had 1 bad season in his tenure but it was free fall. Thanks for everything Tony! Good Luck.

Re: Tony smith to leave Warrington- Official : Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:33 pm  

I still think a timely announcement or two from the club hierarchy could have saved a lot of fan unrest this year & I would like to think that if there are any evident problems in the dressing room or the back room then they will be dealt with before 2018 & any wrong doers flushed out.

Re: Tony smith to leave Warrington- Official : Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:21 pm  

lefty goldblatt wrote:

Spot on, rf

Blowing a 14 point lead, conceding 30 unanswered points in 2013 merely underlines this. We bottled it, that night. We switched off, the moment Monaghan went off injured. By the time Ratchford went off, we were already "rabbits in the headlights".

Professional, hard nosed teams don't do that.
That's why Leeds, Wigan, Saints and Bradford have a stranglehold on the GF.
The new coach needs to be RUTHLESS. Not a glorified social worker

Smith's biggest mistake that night, though, was selecting Ratchford over Hodgson. His cool, experienced head, not to mention his skills in opening up the opposition defense, were badly missed that night.

Re: Tony smith to leave Warrington- Official : Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:26 pm  

WireWireWire wrote:

Brought more success to this club than anyone before him. Took us from slightly above average to completely mixing it and sometimes dominating the big few.

Couldn't quite take us to GF glory but 3 appearances, 4 challenge cup appearances, winning 3, and 2 league leaders shields isn't a bad haul from what we had ever had in the same amount of time. Takes us to within 80 minutes of all 3 pieces of silverware one year and then out the door the next.

Shame it had to end this way. Only had 1 bad season in his tenure but it was free fall. Thanks for everything Tony! Good Luck.

I don't know about dominating the big few. We had some individual results over the years but they could all say the same.

The trophy haul and finals we have been to have been more than we've ever had, so we've got to be grateful for that but we're still only the 3rd most successful club during Smith's time here. With the squad and money at our disposal, I'd argue that it should have been better.

There's been more than 1 bad season and getting to the Challenge Cup final and Grand Final last year really did mask the issues. I know Sandow tailed off through the season but without him (and Gidley to some extent) we shouldn't have been within a couple of play of winning the lot.

We may never see another team as exciting as the 2011/12 team but we've faded badly since then due to poor recruitment and some strange man management.