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Theories
Post Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:58 am
Captain Hook Cheeky half-back
Cheeky half-back

Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:54 pm
Posts: 729
Location: Sunny Southport
I have deliberately left raising this issue until we had a win under our belt in the hope that we can actually discuss the issues rationally.
My starting point is that on paper we have a stronger squad than last season, and we have the same coaching set up so in theory we should have been in a strong position for the start of the season.
I accept we have had injuries, the terribly sad news for Dom Crosby and factor in other teams have strengthened but that doesn't explain the dreadful start to the season.
I know there is a strong view on the forum that TS has lost the dressing room and/or is no longer fit for purpose.
My theory is that too much emphasis has been put on the game against Aussie opposition and it has been treated as a cup final, with a typical "Post cup final" reaction, the same thing happened a couple of seasons ago.
Reasonable theory or "grassy knoll" bat pooh crazy?
Just my opinions unless it's a FACT, in which case it's a fact.
Re: Theories
Post Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:06 pm
ninearches Bronze RLFANS Member
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Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:01 pm
Posts: 3249
Location: newton-le-willows

Unfortunately, none of us know the real injury situation from week to week within any club & the state of readiness any club is really in to compete at the highest level. Luckily, the current format of superleague seems geared to favour which ever team can rise to the occasion for a few games at the end of the year to hope to win a trophy regardless of what dross is turned out to its paying supporters for the previous few months. Managing injuries or even saving your better players for games that matter could be critical.
Re: Theories
Post Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:07 pm
morrisseyisawire User avatar
Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger

Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:45 pm
Posts: 1427
It's been an awful conbination of events, failures and yes, bad luck.

On paper, Cooper, Crosby and Savelio gave considerable guile and power to a pack heavily reliant on Hill. However, for various reasons, none have as yet fulfilled expectations. Crosby obviously is forgiven but Cooper in particular has been appaling.

We limped into the season minus our best players and never seem to have recovered composure , a cohesive game plan or shaken off pre-season rustiness and apathy.

We've missed Currie massively, even more than I as his stalker in chief expected. With the exception of Clark there isn't a player in the squad comes cloae to his skill range.

I don't subscribe to the rampant mood of denial regarding Sandow's loss either. In the first few months he was unplayable. Even after that he still offerred a spark that none of our halves have consistently achieved. Once again, you have to question if the club should have seen it coming and planned ahead - whats the point in employing player welfare officers if they can't see a player is unhappy?

And finally too much game time and time itself had caught up with Westwood and Gidley whilst Hill is sufferring from carrying the pack for too long.
Re: Theories
Post Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:57 pm
lefty goldblatt User avatar
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We can offer more excuses than the class naughty kid, who never hands his homework in on time.
A head coach who's outstayed his welcome. His last trophy of note was 5 years ago. Simple fact is, everybody but the winner sneers at the LLS. His recruitment is,ahem, below par.

His assistant, who's arrival at our club has coincided with some of the dullest RL I can remember us playing.

Despite the hero worship (by some) of Gidley. Nah. Not for me.

Westwood. Should've gone after the 2013 GF. He's finished.

Patton. One week he looks like a player, the next, like he's never played before.

Crap tactics.

Injuries to Hill, Currie, RATCHFORD and Penny have blunted us.

Youngsters that just don't look SL standard.

Dreadful discipline, particularly that Catalans game. At times, we're a penalty machine.

Going complete halves of matches, without scoring a try. Unforgiveable, in this day and age, when defence is an optional extra, in some matches.

I could do a Jimmy Cricket impression now, and say there's more, but I'll just get accused of being negative by the 3 monkey syndromers on here.
Thanks for the memories, Tony.
Re: Theories
Post Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:36 pm
Or thane Strong-running second rower
Strong-running second rower

Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:42 pm
Posts: 261
Who Knows to be honest, I hate the term it takes time for teams to gel but that appears to be the case here. I wasn't excited by the signing of Cooper which I think was massively blown out of proportion. He wasn't amazing when he played for us and wasn't amazing in the NRL, he's just a consistant decent prop and that is it. Brown can be a game changer for us whatever peoples opinions of him are, he is a good player and when are forwards are working well he will be a lot better just like the Brisbane game. Savelio I like and think we should sign him long term. When Crosby feels ready to return and gets some games for us I think he will be awesome for us, I really like him and think he is a really good prop. We've won a few now and we are still playing poor so once we get players back and playing in consistant spot we "should" kick on from there.
Re: Theories
Post Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:39 pm
Boss Hog Eddie Hemmings's Wig
Eddie Hemmings's Wig

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:34 pm
Posts: 233
lefty goldblatt wrote:



I could say there's more, but I'll just get accused of being negative by the 3 monkey syndromers on here.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Brilliant
Re: Theories
Post Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:25 pm
Winslade's Offload 100% League Network
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:40 pm
Posts: 3607
Location: Goodbye Kiss / Kasabian
Captain Hook wrote:
I have deliberately left raising this issue until we had a win under our belt in the hope that we can actually discuss the issues rationally.
My starting point is that on paper we have a stronger squad than last season, and we have the same coaching set up so in theory we should have been in a strong position for the start of the season.
I accept we have had injuries, the terribly sad news for Dom Crosby and factor in other teams have strengthened but that doesn't explain the dreadful start to the season.
I know there is a strong view on the forum that TS has lost the dressing room and/or is no longer fit for purpose.
My theory is that too much emphasis has been put on the game against Aussie opposition and it has been treated as a cup final, with a typical "Post cup final" reaction, the same thing happened a couple of seasons ago.
Reasonable theory or "grassy knoll" bat pooh crazy?


It's strange that you should mention it because I have mulled the Broncos game over a couple of times. Cast your mind back to the tackles and we were regularly putting 4 men into them. And Cooper looked like the prop we were all hoping for as he crashed into their defensive line. The team were certainly pumped up for that match and it did look like a final. Remember the error count in the first half (1) and the number of completed sets (100%) ? So if we can perform like that for one game surely we can repeat it for the regular rounds. Wigan seemed to handle their WC game a lot better than we did because we all know what followed: low energy performances and the biggest error count of all the teams in SL. The Broncos game might well have been our downfall by sapping our energy and making it difficult to 'get up' for the next one, which of course was Cas, the form team of the competition.

Having said all that, you certainly can not put all our woes down to the WCS. Missing key players like Hill and Ratchford must surely be a key factor as you point out. Then there are the cracks that have been papered-over such as the lack of attacking edge from our 3/4's and last years problem of the pack with no 'go forward', (which has re-surfaced). Finally I guess there is morale, which would have steadily gone down hill with each defeat. So perhaps you are right, we should have been putting all our energy and focus into getting a winning start in SL than playing a high tempo game against the Aussies. Last year we benefitted from a long winning streak, this year we may have been distracted and paid the penalty.
Re: Theories
Post Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:28 pm
Wires71 User avatar
Silver RLFANS Member
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:49 pm
Posts: 8875
lefty goldblatt wrote:
but I'll just get accused of being negative by the 3 monkey syndromers on here.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Try the Facebook pages. Like The Peoples Republic of North Korea.
Re: Theories
Post Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:58 pm
runningman29 User avatar
Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:34 pm
Posts: 1428
Location: Warrington
lefty goldblatt wrote:
We can offer more excuses than the class naughty kid, who never hands his homework in on time.
A head coach who's outstayed his welcome. His last trophy of note was 5 years ago. Simple fact is, everybody but the winner sneers at the LLS. His recruitment is,ahem, below par.

His assistant, who's arrival at our club has coincided with some of the dullest RL I can remember us playing.

Despite the hero worship (by some) of Gidley. Nah. Not for me.

Westwood. Should've gone after the 2013 GF. He's finished.

Patton. One week he looks like a player, the next, like he's never played before.

Crap tactics.

Injuries to Hill, Currie, RATCHFORD and Penny have blunted us.

Youngsters that just don't look SL standard.

Dreadful discipline, particularly that Catalans game. At times, we're a penalty machine.

Going complete halves of matches, without scoring a try. Unforgiveable, in this day and age, when defence is an optional extra, in some matches.

I could do a Jimmy Cricket impression now, and say there's more, but I'll just get accused of being negative by the 3 monkey syndromers on here.
+ 1
Re: Theories
Post Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:48 pm
sally cinnamon User avatar
Gold RLFANS Member
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:26 am
Posts: 14069
Location: NFL playoffs
My theories:

- We've had generally poor recruitment over the past few years. For about 7 years now we have had more misses than hits in the recruitment market and this has taken its toll.

- Over the same sort of time period, the players that have come through our youth system have either been just about good enough or not quite good enough. Unlike Wigan, Leeds, Hull, Cas we haven't been producing players who are top quality.

- For most of that time we have still been one of the best teams around, because we have been well coached and the team has been committed and hard working. There have been some senior players who have set standards and been a benchmark of consistency. But this year because of injury or advancing years, our senior pros are not really doing it and it has left us exposed.

- Chris Sandow's departure was disruptive although I thought in Kevin Brown we got a very good replacement who I was pleased with, but his form so far has not been good. That has left us short in a key position, but I haven't given up hope in Brown who is quality IMO.

- Other teams have improved and made us pay the price for regressing. I don't think there's THAT much difference between the higher and lower teams in SL but we have definitely been reined in and lost our edge that put us in the top group. We will see where we really are at the end of the season. There is always the possibility over a short sample of games that bad luck combined with loss of form and confidence can make us look worse than we are but over an extended run we'll get a fair reflection.
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