I think even if Toronto wolfpack are a howling success & front page news in Canada that the British media will be hard pushed to give the move much oxygen over here & risk upsetting the Twickers gang.
The ultimate goal would have to be a stand alone league in Canada which could also compete with SL & NRL teams if viable. Seeing as many Canadians are French speaking & of French origin a league in Canada could also help the development of more French sides to allow them to build there own league.
They have their own leagues,have done for many years.
The ultimate goal would have to be a stand alone league in Canada which could also compete with SL & NRL teams if viable. Seeing as many Canadians are French speaking & of French origin a league in Canada could also help the development of more French sides to allow them to build there own league.
They have their own leagues,have done for many years.
Yes ,i know. What i meant to put was "improve the quality of the French league".
Some might look at this as being harsh but I think it's fair. When are the Rugby League going to stop persisting with this fantasy expansion. If it hasn't worked by now, it never will! I'm all for reaching out to a wider audience with our game but not at the expense of historical clubs in the homelands.
I agree the sport is confined to obscure irrelevant little towns (with the exception of Leeds, Manchester, Hull). But this is not because of choice, it's because RL is not a mainstream sport in the UK. It is far being Football, Cricket, RU. The game is just not that popular. I don't understand what the disconnect here is on understanding that? So genuinely, what is the overarching plan for the game's expansion to have teams from all over the world competing in an international Super league?
There is zero presence in Manchester and to most of the country Hull is the epitome of an irrelevant, obscure place. There was an Eastenders episode recently where one of the characters was faced with the prospect of having to move to Hull and it was presented as a fate worse than death. Yet in RL it's considered an upmarket, cosmopolitan location. Is it any wonder the sport gets no meaningful coverage or respect?
Wires71 wrote:
You are right I have not investigated the Toronto plans in any great detail and am basing my view on 1) the leadership capabilities of the RFL 2) Past experiences. 3) Common sense.
Well there's your problem then because the RFL have literally, absolutely nothing to do with this apart from agreeing to allow Toronto to enter League 1. If this was RFL trying to transplant a team in some far-flung location (which is what you appear to think is happening) then I would agree with you, if it was some type of strange 'expansion' initiative then I would agree with you but it isn't, it's a bunch of millionaires in Toronto who want a professional rugby league team and are willing to stump up to make it happen. I believe they have already paid a substantial retainer just to enter League 1. 'Common sense' doesn't really apply when you don't actually know anything about what you're talking about, with due respect.
There is zero presence in Manchester and to most of the country Hull is the epitome of an irrelevant, obscure place. There was an Eastenders episode recently where one of the characters was faced with the prospect of having to move to Hull and it was presented as a fate worse than death. Yet in RL it's considered an upmarket, cosmopolitan location. Is it any wonder the sport gets no meaningful coverage or respect?
Well there's your problem then because the RFL have literally, absolutely nothing to do with this apart from agreeing to allow Toronto to enter League 1. If this was RFL trying to transplant a team in some far-flung location (which is what you appear to think is happening) then I would agree with you, if it was some type of strange 'expansion' initiative then I would agree with you but it isn't, it's a bunch of millionaires in Toronto who want a professional rugby league team and are willing to stump up to make it happen. I believe they have already paid a substantial retainer just to enter League 1. 'Common sense' doesn't really apply when you don't actually know anything about what you're talking about, with due respect.
My "common sense" point was that I believe attempting to have an international league of a sport that has about 100,000 regular supporters, where one of the teams is 3,400 miles from it's peers is doomed to failure. But let's see where they are in 5 years time.
You mentioned "irrelevant little towns". I was simply correcting you that Hull is actually a city, along with Leeds and Manchester. Indeed Hull is the UK City of Culture for 2017 and has been a city for 120 years. Perhaps you don't actually know anything about UK urban geography, with due respect.
Some might look at this as being harsh but I think it's fair. When are the Rugby League going to stop persisting with this fantasy expansion. If it hasn't worked by now, it never will! I'm all for reaching out to a wider audience with our game but not at the expense of historical clubs in the homelands.
My "common sense" point was that I believe attempting to have an international league of a sport that has about 100,000 regular supporters, where one of the teams is 3,400 miles from it's peers is doomed to failure. But let's see where they are in 5 years time.
Based on what? We aren't "attempting to have an international league", we are accepting a proposal from a bunch of millionaires in a major world city who like our sport and want to be part of it. What do you think the RFL should have done, told them to bugger off? Once again, this isn't internally-driven expansion, not sure why you can't seem to grasp that. If you want to tell the people behind Toronto Wolfpack that you think their business plan is flawed then that's fine (although I would think they probably know a lot more about it than you do), but that doesn't seem to be what you're doing, you seem to be going on about the RFL which is just a completely redundant argument here.
You mentioned "irrelevant little towns". I was simply correcting you that Hull is actually a city, along with Leeds and Manchester. Indeed Hull is the UK City of Culture for 2017 and has been a city for 120 years. Perhaps you don't actually know anything about UK urban geography, with due respect.
I'm fully aware that Hull is a city, lol, it doesn't change the fact that it's the kind of place that people from a lot of parts of the UK scoff at, particularly major urban centres which control the media and thus influence public perceptions. Yes, it's slightly more upmarket than the likes of Castleford and Widnes, which are complete non-entities that nobody has heard of.
Based on what? We aren't "attempting to have an international league", we are accepting a proposal from a bunch of millionaires in a major world city who like our sport and want to be part of it. What do you think the RFL should have done, told them to bugger off? Once again, this isn't internally-driven expansion, not sure why you can't seem to grasp that. If you want to tell the people behind Toronto Wolfpack that you think their business plan is flawed then that's fine (although I would think they probably know a lot more about it than you do), but that doesn't seem to be what you're doing, you seem to be going on about the RFL which is just a completely redundant argument here.
I'm fully aware that Hull is a city, lol, it doesn't change the fact that it's the kind of place that people from a lot of parts of the UK scoff at, particularly major urban centres which control the media and thus influence public perceptions. Yes, it's slightly more upmarket than the likes of Castleford and Widnes, which are complete non-entities that nobody has heard of.
oh dear, have you been to hull recently? visitors are nothing but positive about our city, granted it isnt a concrete urban jungle like london, manchester and leeds and there is work going on in the city centre, but the city and surrounding areas have actually been given rave reviews by the national media!
maybe you should retract your head from your anus and visit and actually take time to look around instead of assuming its a dump!
Some might look at this as being harsh but I think it's fair. When are the Rugby League going to stop persisting with this fantasy expansion. If it hasn't worked by now, it never will! I'm all for reaching out to a wider audience with our game but not at the expense of historical clubs in the homelands.
oh dear, have you been to hull recently? visitors are nothing but positive about our city, granted it isnt a concrete urban jungle like london, manchester and leeds and there is work going on in the city centre, but the city and surrounding areas have actually been given rave reviews by the national media!
maybe you should retract your head from your anus and visit and actually take time to look around instead of assuming its a dump!
I was in Hull last year, it's not a bad place, in RL terms it's a sprawling metropolis but that doesn't mean it's somewhere that people from outside the region care about or consider to be an attractive or upmarket location. It's just an average city. Yet on Sky Sports we have Eddie calling FC vs KR the "big city derby", it's the 58th biggest city in the country FFS, that shows the scale of RL in the UK and why we get the treatment we do. Even Leeds is not taken all that seriously from people outside the region, which you would think was New York City listening to most RL fans. It's the most parochial of sports.
Based on what? We aren't "attempting to have an international league", we are accepting a proposal from a bunch of millionaires in a major world city who like our sport and want to be part of it. What do you think the RFL should have done, told them to bugger off? Once again, this isn't internally-driven expansion, not sure why you can't seem to grasp that. If you want to tell the people behind Toronto Wolfpack that you think their business plan is flawed then that's fine (although I would think they probably know a lot more about it than you do), but that doesn't seem to be what you're doing, you seem to be going on about the RFL which is just a completely redundant argument here.
I'm fully aware that Hull is a city, lol, it doesn't change the fact that it's the kind of place that people from a lot of parts of the UK scoff at, particularly major urban centres which control the media and thus influence public perceptions. Yes, it's slightly more upmarket than the likes of Castleford and Widnes, which are complete non-entities that nobody has heard of.
The RFL are clearly involved and supporting this venture, by allowing the team to compete in the league. So desperate are they for any growth, and devoid of any ideas themselves, they have sanctioned this. A ""bunch of millionaires" and a Powerpoint presentation and you are in the league. I am a bit sceptical, as you know, as I would have thought the "bunch of millionaires" could have started a pro-RL Canadian league if there is such demand for it. I mean I cannot imagine people in a major world city could get excited about a home game with a UK non-entity northern town such as Wigan or Saint Helens?
I suspect I know more about failed RL expansionism than the people behind Toronto Wolfpack, having seen it for 30 years, and watched RL played in Kent, London, Edinburgh, Newcastle, North Wales, South Wales, Spain and France. I am also old enough to remember the Milwaukee game in the mid 80's and how this was going to ignite the fires of North America's desire for a new contact sport.
As I said I think the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. If in 5 years , if Toronto are in SL with massive home crowds you can resurrect this post and show how wise you were at the time.
* "fail to grasp", "going on about" - are you able to debate a subject without attempting to insult the opposing view?
I suspect I know more about failed RL expansionism than the people behind Toronto Wolfpack, having seen it for 30 years, and watched RL played in Kent, London, Edinburgh, Newcastle, North Wales, South Wales, Spain and France. I am also old enough to remember the Milwaukee game in the mid 80's and how this was going to ignite the fires of North America's desire for a new contact sport.
Kent invicta was hardly a bold expansion move was it? the club was set up by a local business man and was bankrupt within six months. Then followed the relocation and name change that happens with every Newly created Rugby League club. Kent is hardly a sporting hot bed I'm sure its football club is only still in existence thanks to extraordinary SKY money and the potential to sell a player for a handsome sum once in a while.
I dont really remember when london (Fulham) failed I suppose it peaked too soon then got relegated quickly and it couldn't cope with the lost revenues and its dragged along ever since, and missed the boat when everyone jumped on the premier league football bandwagon (despite a Wembley appearance and Richard Branson sponsoring shirts). Wales again just poorly run by "businessmen", administration, a name change, ground change, and on and on.
the one major problem our sport has is its not trendy you mention non entity towns and that's probably quite true...English fans get excited about watching those NFL teams, the famous brands like Detroit lions and the Oakland raiders ...I imagine there are places in those two cities that would make Parr stocks and Platt Bridge look like paradise.
if this Toronto Side can add some much needed glamour I'm all up for it I hope it goes incredibly well. I hope people support it in anyway they can, if that means being positive for a change that would be great.
will it fail?? logistics suggest it has too....if those NFL games staged in the UK are still all making a loss I cant imagine how long the Wolfpack model can las,t but I'm guessing they don't fly their own toilet paper over with them like the NFL teams do.
It seems well set up and these "businessmen" appear to have been checked out, it deserves a chance, if it grows the English game or the Canadian game then that can only be a bonus.
If it fails nothing lost...it cant harm us. we'll just have to put up with people banging on about getting a Cumbrian team going....!
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