Tidy up needed : Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:39 pm  

Play the ball has become extremely messy. Holding down, the tackled player moving off the mark, hands in, all irritate me. BUT my biggest bugbear at present is the late player going into the tackle, it makes such a difference to the speed of the play the ball. If I understand it correctly once the ball carrying arm hits the ground the tackle is complete so shouldn't the "late" tackler be penalised for what used to be called a "flop"?

Re: Tidy up needed : Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:57 pm  

The sport needs this more than anything. It's making the games a complete mess. In the NRL semis and GF, the PTB was fast and hardly any messing about compared to our big games.

It does need a tidy up.

Re: Tidy up needed : Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:17 pm  

If the player with the ball is winning collision it should be down to them to set pace of ptb as fast as possible and defending team should be penalised for trying to slow it down. On the other hand if the defence is winning that collision then the speed of ptb should be dictated by them...

Re: Tidy up needed : Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:55 pm  

I'm not sure I know what "winning the collision " actually means? When the tackle is complete shouldn't the tackler let go? As for "surrender" isn't that a voluntary tackle and therefore a penalty...or has that rule gone?

Re: Tidy up needed : Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:43 pm  

Captain Hook wrote:

I'm not sure I know what "winning the collision " actually means? When the tackle is complete shouldn't the tackler let go? As for "surrender" isn't that a voluntary tackle and therefore a penalty...or has that rule gone?

It's interpreted a lot in it's basic form, which is when the ball carrier goes down face first, he's classed as having won the collision. If the defenders turn him on his back or side, they are.

In reality it needs a little more than that, as you get the leaning tower approach a lot, where players go in falling at a 45 degree angle, so inevitably end up on their front, to promote a quick play the ball. Or you get defenders wrestling with the ball carrier to artificially force them onto their back.

The rule should be that if the ball carrier makes ground after the collision he's entitled to a quick play the ball. You don't get that now, teams like Wigan will get false numbers in. Two or three will stop the player, then another two will jump on when the referee is about to shout held, or even after, to delay the play the ball. For me, that in itself should be penalisable. If the ball carrier is stopped dead, or loses ground after the collision, then the defending team should have an extra couple of seconds.

Moving off the mark also needs to be penalised. That causes a lot of the penalties and messy play at the play the ball. Teams like Wigan (Theme here?) will consistently move forward when the tackle is complete. It's really common when the referee shouts held, they will continue to drive forward for three or four steps, playing the ball on the move and often colliding with the markers, who are then penalised. Also happens when the ball carrier is taken to ground, they will get up and take a step to the side before playing the ball. The makers again are often penalised for not being square. In either scenario it also reduces the 10, leaving the fans of the team in possession going ape about not getting penalties for offside.

Re: Tidy up needed : Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:34 am  

Another problem which ought to be penalised is the attacking player diving as they play the ball trying to milk a penalty. At the moment most refs. say ... "get on with it". I think it's more serious than just "get on with it."
I've also spotted attacking players driving forward and falling as they play the ball ... and taking out the nearest marker.
The play the ball is indeed a huge part of the game. It needs to be crystal clear what's allowed. It does indeed need tidying up.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Tidy up needed : Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:46 am  

I'm not a fan of the holding a player up, then dragging him to the floor after the held call, then mugging about down there. A referee who i can't remember used to penalise people for this and was oft heard to say, "if you want time messing about standing up, then i'm not going to give you time then messing around on the floor" which i think is fair to an extent.

Re the moving off the mark, again i've heard refs in the past don't penalise it really, as they don't move the defensive line in accordance, so all the attack are really doing is giving them less distance between them and the defenders, the principle though does need penalising.

Re: Tidy up needed : Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:06 am  

Moving off the mark by digging the studs in and pushing forward is being actively coached in RL.

Re: Tidy up needed : Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:17 am  

mark_m wrote:

Moving off the mark by digging the studs in and pushing forward is being actively coached in RL.

I've often though that would be a good approach to pinch a meter at the play the ball. With a typical average gain of a forward < 9m it would represent a sizeable increase.

Re: Tidy up needed : Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:29 am  

The kick downfield from distance to go over the dead ball line & force a tap on the 25. This plan smacks of lack of ideas in attack & is as negative as the kicks to touch in RU that we readily criticise .