Re: When a Picture speaks a Thousand words ?? : Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:26 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

I think it was pretty brave of him to speak out and he would know the situation better than either of us I imagine.

You say players like him got Cullen the sack but players like him did not get Tony Smith the sack, in fact they got us a CC Winners medal for the first time in 25 years, when managed effectively.

In the end lack of results got Cullen the sack, not King and Co.

what was brave about it.... he wasn't a victim of anything.....??

maybe he'll bad mouth Melbourne storm and the two books they were cooking for years....... lifting the lid on that kind of stuff would have been "brave"

Do I think its true about the culture?? absolutely... but i think its also a bad attempt at trying to explain away Kings early poor form.

when he signed he said this:
"My decision was based on taking on loads of advice from the likes of Andrew Johns and David Kidwell who have both played for the club and they could not speak highly enough of the set-up and the Warrington area.
Also my good mate Mike Sullivan is currently playing with the club and he gave me advice as well.
So I took on board all this advice and made the decision to come to Warrington. "

you'd think rum tuskers like Johns and Sullivan would have mentioned the drinking culture....??? maybe Sullivan who kopped stick would have even spoken about jobs for the boys ...??

Or maybe to quote an old Not the nine oclock news sketch " King was as shocked as anyone to find out about the drinking culture and jobs for the boys as there was no mention of it on the original pay cheque"

Look I like King he's an amiable bloke, he also ended up being a top class centre and his display in the 2009 CC semi was top drawer ..in one of may all time favourite wire games, So Ive no axe to grind with him but this kind of stuff is best kept for biographies so we can dismiss it as sensationalised rubbish.

Re: When a Picture speaks a Thousand words ?? : Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:49 pm  

To be fair to our s&c coach he's training professional athletes so it shouldn't matter if they don't like him or his methods, he's there to get them fit not be their BFF's. These are grown men and not kids playing on a Saturday in front of mum and dad, they should man up and grow a pair. We all all deal with people we don't like ( managers etc) but we don't suddenly become poop at our jobs and blame it on someone else. It's a bit crappy to say he's a factor as to why we've underperformed because our players are clearly not unfit, it's just poor coaching and man management. Lay off the dude he's there to do a job and he's clearly doing it.

Re: When a Picture speaks a Thousand words ?? : Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:42 am  

the flying biscuit wrote:

what was brave about it.... he wasn't a victim of anything.....??

maybe he'll bad mouth Melbourne storm and the two books they were cooking for years....... lifting the lid on that kind of stuff would have been "brave"

Do I think its true about the culture?? absolutely... but i think its also a bad attempt at trying to explain away Kings early poor form.

when he signed he said this:
"My decision was based on taking on loads of advice from the likes of Andrew Johns and David Kidwell who have both played for the club and they could not speak highly enough of the set-up and the Warrington area.
Also my good mate Mike Sullivan is currently playing with the club and he gave me advice as well.
So I took on board all this advice and made the decision to come to Warrington. "

you'd think rum tuskers like Johns and Sullivan would have mentioned the drinking culture....??? maybe Sullivan who kopped stick would have even spoken about jobs for the boys ...??

Or maybe to quote an old Not the nine oclock news sketch " King was as shocked as anyone to find out about the drinking culture and jobs for the boys as there was no mention of it on the original pay cheque"

Look I like King he's an amiable bloke, he also ended up being a top class centre and his display in the 2009 CC semi was top drawer ..in one of may all time favourite wire games, So Ive no axe to grind with him but this kind of stuff is best kept for biographies so we can dismiss it as sensationalised rubbish.

He outlined how the poor culture has rubbed off at him and how he was ashamed that he developed the attitude that "if others weren't putting there all in during training, why should he". Takes a bit of guts to own up to ones failings I think?

Anyhow this really is not about King it's about what he said but you have me confused..

You said "Do I think its true about the culture?? absolutely" then closed your argument with "we can dismiss it as sensationalised rubbish".

Which is it?

Re: When a Picture speaks a Thousand words ?? : Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:13 am  

Its quite simple. ...Yes there was a drinking culture at the club ....Cullen himself knew this....but not every single player ripped in and got wasted. . And had their form suffer as a result.

I saw Henry faafilli and logan swan round town drinking orange juice once. ....if king just went along with the drinking and that made him make poor defensive reads, drop balls etc then that's his own fault. ...don't blame a bloke that helped secure him a very well paid job. ....

he's made it sound like the place was a shambles. .....its that kind of stuff that should be preserved for biographies....

When making media comments he should have said "we all needed to be a bit more professional after Cullen lost his job"....
that's all. ....

Maybe Paul wood will come out soon and criticise Tony Smith's recruitment and fitness and training methods.... pretty obvious to me that's pretty poor.

I only started the post to find out which people were getting jobs for the boys. ...you didn't help me out on that. ...

Re: When a Picture speaks a Thousand words ?? : Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:51 am  

Would we be happy with Clarke coming in to the role?

I know he is fully qualified but he doesn't have a huge amount of experience after only hanging up his playing boots 12 months ago? Or do we see Clarke coming in with a 'Director' role being made above him like Bitcon @ the Pies?

Re: When a Picture speaks a Thousand words ?? : Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:07 pm  

the flying biscuit wrote:

Its quite simple. ...Yes there was a drinking culture at the club ....Cullen himself knew this....but not every single player ripped in and got wasted. . And had their form suffer as a result.

I saw Henry faafilli and logan swan round town drinking orange juice once. ....if king just went along with the drinking and that made him make poor defensive reads, drop balls etc then that's his own fault. ...don't blame a bloke that helped secure him a very well paid job. ....

he's made it sound like the place was a shambles. .....its that kind of stuff that should be preserved for biographies....

When making media comments he should have said "we all needed to be a bit more professional after Cullen lost his job"....
that's all. ....

Maybe Paul wood will come out soon and criticise Tony Smith's recruitment and fitness and training methods.... pretty obvious to me that's pretty poor.

I only started the post to find out which people were getting jobs for the boys. ...you didn't help me out on that. ...

I am not arguing that there was a culture of "jobs for the boys" if you look back. King was. My post was only in relation to that comment. I suspect he was referring to Derbyshire (RIP) and Chambers. I believe Chambers is no longer in pro-rugby as his spell at Swinton came to an abrupt end when they changed owners.

I have made no comment on the alleged drinking culture nor the accusation that "Cullen had no control over the joint" but, if pushed, I think there is probably a grain of truth in it.

However I agree with you. King can only hold himself accountable for his actions, but he wasn't blaming anyone if you listen to the interview. He was explaining how he found it difficult / crowd on his back when asked about how Sandow would settle in. He cited a big culture change from the NRL into our environment under Cullen.

Re: When a Picture speaks a Thousand words ?? : Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:19 pm  

Alffi_7 wrote:

Would we be happy with Clarke coming in to the role?

I know he is fully qualified but he doesn't have a huge amount of experience after only hanging up his playing boots 12 months ago? Or do we see Clarke coming in with a 'Director' role being made above him like Bitcon @ the Pies?

I'm guessing some will be concerned about the fact that Monas, Briers and Clarke will be on the coaching staff when these were Cullens players that were part of the drinking culture Matt king alluded to.... they didnt show leadership qualities back then as they had to wait for Tony smith to hold their hands and tell them to stop being naughty boys and stop drinking..........???

the coaching doesn't bother me to be honest Agar has had plaudits from players this year and I haven't heard any other assistant praised by players in the past.

its recruitment which continues to be poor...

Re: When a Picture speaks a Thousand words ?? : Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:43 pm  

the flying biscuit wrote:

the coaching doesn't bother me to be honest Agar has had plaudits from players this year and I haven't heard any other assistant praised by players in the past.

its recruitment which continues to be poor...

I hope you are right and it's not Agar. I would have thought even average players could be coached to show a little inventiveness in attack.
I suspect combination of both only based on hearsay on what Agar's ex clubs fans describe.

Re: When a Picture speaks a Thousand words ?? : Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:53 pm  

Or thane wrote:

To be fair to our s&c coach he's training professional athletes so it shouldn't matter if they don't like him or his methods, he's there to get them fit not be their BFF's. These are grown men and not kids playing on a Saturday in front of mum and dad, they should man up and grow a pair. We all all deal with people we don't like ( managers etc) but we don't suddenly become poop at our jobs and blame it on someone else. It's a bit crappy to say he's a factor as to why we've underperformed because our players are clearly not unfit, it's just poor coaching and man management. Lay off the dude he's there to do a job and he's clearly doing it.

At last, someone with common sense.

A few players falling out with a fitness coach because they don't like his methods, smells of "love that, if he wants me to do extra training.....I've played here for years.....doesn't he know who I am....I want respect". No, it shows that you are either
a)insubordinate/bolshy
b)lazy/not committed
c)trying to be Billy Big Biscuits in front of the younger squad member.

From where I stand, the fitness coach has identified areas where fitness levels could be improved, or he reckoned the previous incumbent's methods weren't up to scratch, so he's brought in his own. It's happened in business for centuries.
The whole issue reminds me of Harris engineering his move nearly 20 years ago, with all that "I'm not playing at fullback" nonsense. Coaches know better than players, that's why they coach. If they didn't, clubs would all be run by 25 year old player/coaches, who obviously know everything at that tender age. Like it or not, coaches/managers are employed to do just that....coach/manage. They live or die by their efforts. If they fail, they get the boot. Players turn up until their contract ends. Player power does get people the sack.

I was a huge Woody fan. His actions in leaving the club made him look a bit of a Berk (if rumours are to be believed)

Re: When a Picture speaks a Thousand words ?? : Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:22 pm  

lefty goldblatt wrote:

At last, someone with common sense.

A few players falling out with a fitness coach because they don't like his methods, smells of "love that, if he wants me to do extra training.....I've played here for years.....doesn't he know who I am....I want respect". No, it shows that you are either
a)insubordinate/bolshy
b)lazy/not committed
c)trying to be Billy Big Biscuits in front of the younger squad member.

From where I stand, the fitness coach has identified areas where fitness levels could be improved, or he reckoned the previous incumbent's methods weren't up to scratch, so he's brought in his own. It's happened in business for centuries.
The whole issue reminds me of Harris engineering his move nearly 20 years ago, with all that "I'm not playing at fullback" nonsense. Coaches know better than players, that's why they coach. If they didn't, clubs would all be run by 25 year old player/coaches, who obviously know everything at that tender age. Like it or not, coaches/managers are employed to do just that....coach/manage. They live or die by their efforts. If they fail, they get the boot. Players turn up until their contract ends. Player power does get people the sack.

I was a huge Woody fan. His actions in leaving the club made him look a bit of a Berk (if rumours are to be believed)

Clearly not someone who has been around a full time sporting environment.

Far off the mark with many comments there and I guarantee that anyone with a dictatorial attitude wouldn't be popular.