Re: Lenagan predicts Catalans, Toulouse. Toronto, New York i : Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:11 pm  

Adam_Harrison9 wrote:

No. They're acting like they bring a considerable amount more than Toronto and Toulouse would.

JESUS WEPT HOW MANY TIMES?????
£20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000.
The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Wakefield is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover.

There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them.

Re: Lenagan predicts Catalans, Toulouse. Toronto, New York i : Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:16 pm  

Mr Dog wrote:

Your analysis is far too simplistic but fitting of you.

How so Einstein?
The claim was lower gates, which I showed was incorrect....how is that far too simplistic?

Re: Lenagan predicts Catalans, Toulouse. Toronto, New York i : Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:17 pm  

Call Me God wrote:

At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here

Exactly and that for all teams, you take out the likes of Leeds, Hull, Saints etc.whose place realistically won't be under threat and just concentrate about the teams who would be in the firing line then you're looking at a few or several hundred in some cases.

Re: Lenagan predicts Catalans, Toulouse. Toronto, New York i : Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:26 pm  

PrinterThe wrote:

Exactly and that for all teams, you take out the likes of Leeds, Hull, Saints etc.whose place realistically won't be under threat and just concentrate about the teams who would be in the firing line then you're looking at a few or several hundred in some cases.

Leigh, Wakefield, Widnes, Salford and Huddersfield averaged 5,21 last year......the others averaged 11,454......and guess where most of the anti-expansion fans reside?

The deadwood needs to be culled......the sport was happy to lose the Capital city and Bradford, one of its better supported sides to let a few pit villages dream of a year in the spotlight before returning to obscurity.
If the game wants to survive (think about what options we had for our leisure £ 20 years ago and then imagine what we will compete with in another decade?), then we need to expand to new markets.
I am not saying Toronto, NYC or anywhere else is the answer, but I can assure you that Leigh, Wakefield, Widnes, Salford and Huddersfield aren't the answer!

Re: Lenagan predicts Catalans, Toulouse. Toronto, New York i : Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:28 pm  

Alan wrote:

I'm still struggling with the concept, that a successful launch of a number of North American clubs would want to include any of our clubs. With all respect to the top clubs in the UK, including Mr Lenegan's highly successful Wigan, how may of the big cities of North America will have even heard of them?

A league as postulated might include 4 UK clubs at the very most: London, Manchester, Birmingham and Edinburgh, although I doubt it'll be more than 2.

Re: Lenagan predicts Catalans, Toulouse. Toronto, New York i : Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:46 pm  

Alan wrote:

I'm still struggling with the concept, that a successful launch of a number of North American clubs would want to include any of our clubs. With all respect to the top clubs in the UK, including Mr Lenegan's highly successful Wigan, how may of the big cities of North America will have even heard of them?

We need to get away from this mindset that clubs can only market to their postcode.

There is no reason why Wigan cannot draw support from the wider Greater Manchester area. That's an area of 2.8m people - roughly the population of Chicago.

There is no reason why St Helens cannot draw support from the Liverpool City region - an area with a population that is similar in size to Philadelphia.

The population of Leeds alone is comparable to cities like San Francisco and Seattle and there is no reason why Warrington couldn't market itself as a team for Chesire - an area with more people living there than Boston and Atlanta put together. These are serious markets, if the clubs themselves can position themselves in that way. If US TV audiences are interested in a tiny little village in Wisconsin, then why wouldn't they be interested in what we can offer if the product is right?

That doesn't mean that our clubs need to have to rebrand, but just that they broaden their appeal - something that every single club should be doing anyway.

This obsession with "away fans", and this myth that paying spectators and TV audiences have any interest in two teams fighting for the prize of being "the least crap" needs to stop.

Any club that relies on away fans for its finances really should be facing serious questions about whether it has a place in any sort of elite competition, because either they aren't trying hard enough to reach the local audience, or the local audience simply doesn't care.

Re: Lenagan predicts Catalans, Toulouse. Toronto, New York i : Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:46 pm  

The Lenagan model would retain the top supported existing SL clubs — Wigan, St Helens, Warrington, Leeds, Hull FC, Hull KR, Catalans and maybe Castleford — and ditch the strugglers by relegating them to the Championship in favour of the new French and North American clubs.

Special dispensation would possibly be given to London because of its centrality for southern development and player recruitment, and because of its usefulness as a brand name to attract corporate sponsors.

There would be an open door for future financially viable French and North American clubs, as well as a financially viable Bradford.

Re: Lenagan predicts Catalans, Toulouse. Toronto, New York i : Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:03 pm  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

Special dispensation would possibly be given to London

....no thanks. We've never had special anything and have no interest in getting favours now......if we have a money man waiting then fine, but no "handouts"......we need a fiscally viable plan!

Re: Lenagan predicts Catalans, Toulouse. Toronto, New York i : Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:04 pm  

Mr Dog wrote:

A league as postulated might include 4 UK clubs at the very most: London, Manchester, Birmingham and Edinburgh, although I doubt it'll be more than 2.

They'll go with the same clubs they have now, and English rugbyleague will once again fall further behind the NRL and union, and unfortunately we will then fall behind North America once their clubs have established themselves and the same fools that post on forums like this will still blame wakey fev and halifax etc

Re: Lenagan predicts Catalans, Toulouse. Toronto, New York i : Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:07 pm  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

The Lenagan model would retain the top supported existing SL clubs — Wigan, St Helens, Warrington, Leeds, Hull FC, Hull KR, Catalans and maybe Castleford — and ditch the strugglers by relegating them to the Championship in favour of the new French and North American clubs.

Special dispensation would possibly be given to London because of its centrality for southern development and player recruitment, and because of its usefulness as a brand name to attract corporate sponsors.

There would be an open door for future financially viable French and North American clubs, as well as a financially viable Bradford.

You really think there'd be 2 Hull clubs in there?
Because I don't and I support 1 of them. I also doubt weather Cas (who go against every expansionist on here's argument of population, crowds and market they can appeal to). or Bradford (they won't be financially viable by then, and apologies to Bradford fans but even if they were could they be trusted due to there recent history ).

If Toronto, Toulouse whoever come up through the current system then great fair play to them. If they don't then tough try again next year. We shouldn't be putting in just cause they're nice places to go, it look's good in the papers, and they may bring better opportunities for marketing. Because they also may not.

As someone else has put, why aren't we looking at Scotland, Ireland?