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Re: North America
Post Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:48 pm
Posted by luke ShipleyRed on Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:48 pm
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Bramleyrhino.

Your forgetting the Mets, New York City fc, New York Rangers, New York islanders, new Jersey Devils, New York Red Bulls, new York Cosmos. And other teams.
And the thing with big cities is, there's also a lot of non sporting things to do.
If we could establish ourselves in New York, then yes I think we'd have a better chance of cracking America.
But I tend to agree with mrpurfect in that we would have a better chance in places like Hamilton, Jacksonville (Leeds v south Sydney got 10,000 for a pre season friendly there). Smaller towns. Where we could get better coverage on local TV, radio where's there's more of a market for us to compete for. And where there is less to compete against. Get a foothold in these places, then we can look at cities.

The other thing with cities is substanabilty. Yeah we get crowds at first for the novelty. But are they going to stick?

Like I said, I would concentrate on Canada, expand there as i do believe we will become more established there than USA.
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Re: North America
Post Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:57 pm
Posted by freddies wig on Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:57 pm
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Unbelievable.

Stick the boot into the established British clubs outside Super League then pin the sport’s future on some bloke in a bar in New York saying it would be good if New York had a Rugby League team.

I’m drowning in irony
Oh hali hali hali hali halifax
Re: North America
Post Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:45 pm
Posted by bramleyrhino on Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:45 pm
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luke ShipleyRed wrote:
Bramleyrhino.

Your forgetting the Mets, New York City fc, New York Rangers, New York islanders, new Jersey Devils, New York Red Bulls, new York Cosmos. And other teams.
And the thing with big cities is, there's also a lot of non sporting things to do.
If we could establish ourselves in New York, then yes I think we'd have a better chance of cracking America.
But I tend to agree with mrpurfect in that we would have a better chance in places like Hamilton, Jacksonville (Leeds v south Sydney got 10,000 for a pre season friendly there). Smaller towns. Where we could get better coverage on local TV, radio where's there's more of a market for us to compete for. And where there is less to compete against. Get a foothold in these places, then we can look at cities.

The other thing with cities is substanabilty. Yeah we get crowds at first for the novelty. But are they going to stick?

Like I said, I would concentrate on Canada, expand there as i do believe we will become more established there than USA.


I'm not forgetting anything. What I'm saying is that within what appears to be "saturated" markets, there lies opportunities to find a niche and be successful. Good marketers do that every single day.

And your question about "will they come back" applies to any market and again, is a question tackled by good marketers every day. If we want to put the sport in one-horse towns, we may as well just stick with Widnes and Leigh.
I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls


Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.


Jamie Jones-Buchanan wrote:
"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.
Re: North America
Post Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:47 pm
Posted by bramleyrhino on Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:47 pm
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freddies wig wrote:
Unbelievable.

Stick the boot into the established British clubs outside Super League then pin the sport’s future on some bloke in a bar in New York saying it would be good if New York had a Rugby League team.

I’m drowning in irony


Oh boo fecking hoo....

These established British clubs have had more than 120 years to prove that they can take themselves and the sport forward and with a handful of exceptions, they have failed.

We can't afford to wait another 120 while they work out how marketing works.
I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls


Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.


Jamie Jones-Buchanan wrote:
"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.
Re: North America
Post Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:09 pm
Posted by luke ShipleyRed on Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:09 pm
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bramleyrhino wrote:
I'm not forgetting anything. What I'm saying is that within what appears to be "saturated" markets, there lies opportunities to find a niche and be successful. Good marketers do that every single day.

And your question about "will they come back" applies to any market and again, is a question tackled by good marketers every day. If we want to put the sport in one-horse towns, we may as well just stick with Widnes and Leigh.


A) Good Marketers may do that everyday. But we talking about the RFL and international boards. Who can't tell us for certain what is happening next year, and how it will effect this year's competition. Or get 3/4 full stadiums in a WC held in a apparently mad RL country.

B) what I said was to get a foothold in America start with small cities & towns. Then look at big cities. Again were an alien sport, trying to break in an over saturated market. In that case any success should be taken.

C) what's wrong with Leigh,Widnes etc. While all other places we've tried have mostly fallen apart. They have still survived. They've done there dues, and deserve as much as anyone to be apart of this adventure. It should never be either or, it should be both.
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Re: North America
Post Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:14 pm
Posted by bramleyrhino on Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:14 pm
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luke ShipleyRed wrote:
A) Good Marketers may do that everyday. But we talking about the RFL and international boards. Who can't tell us for certain what is happening next year, and how it will effect this year's competition. Or get 3/4 full stadiums in a WC held in a apparently mad RL country.

B) what I said was to get a foothold in America start with small cities & towns. Then look at big cities. Again were an alien sport, trying to break in an over saturated market. In that case any success should be taken.

C) what's wrong with Leigh,Widnes etc. While all other places we've tried have mostly fallen apart. They have still survived. They've done there dues, and deserve as much as anyone to be apart of this adventure. It should never be either or, it should be both.


I've said plenty of times before but the biggest marketing failure is at club level. The RFL has failings, but the biggest point of failure is with the clubs. Just because our clubs can't market themselves doesn't mean that American clubs can't.

Of course, there is nothing inherently wrong with Widnes or Leigh, but let's not pretend that they're going to open up the new audiences that sponsors and broadcasters are demanding. They might be the history of the sport, but history is what you cling to when you have no future.
I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls


Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.


Jamie Jones-Buchanan wrote:
"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.
Re: North America
Post Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:18 pm
Posted by freddies wig on Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:18 pm
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bramleyrhino wrote:
Oh boo fecking hoo....

These established British clubs have had more than 120 years to prove that they can take themselves and the sport forward and with a handful of exceptions, they have failed.

We can't afford to wait another 120 while they work out how marketing works.


Learning to read and infer stops the irony building
Oh hali hali hali hali halifax
Re: North America
Post Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:33 pm
Posted by headhunter on Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:33 pm
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luke ShipleyRed wrote:
C) what's wrong with Leigh,Widnes etc. While all other places we've tried have mostly fallen apart. They have still survived. They've done there dues, and deserve as much as anyone to be apart of this adventure. It should never be either or, it should be both.
Not really, both Leigh and Widnes have been down to relying on bucket collections in the past 10 years and only exist now because they have a wealthy backer financing the club, the same as everywhere else. The only reason they haven't fallen apart compared to other places is because the owners are more committed than say the various owners of Bradford or Celtic Crusaders.

As for the heartland clubs, if they can't compete with places that have no RL presence and the sport is completely alien then they can't claim to be much of a heartland, can then?
King Street Cat wrote:
Some might look at this as being harsh but I think it's fair. When are the Rugby League going to stop persisting with this fantasy expansion. If it hasn't worked by now, it never will! I'm all for reaching out to a wider audience with our game but not at the expense of historical clubs in the homelands.
Re: North America
Post Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:23 pm
Posted by luke ShipleyRed on Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:23 pm
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headhunter wrote:
Not really, both Leigh and Widnes have been down to relying on bucket collections in the past 10 years and only exist now because they have a wealthy backer financing the club, the same as everywhere else. The only reason they haven't fallen apart compared to other places is because the owners are more committed than say the various owners of Bradford or Celtic Crusaders.

As for the heartland clubs, if they can't compete with places that have no RL presence and the sport is completely alien then they can't claim to be much of a heartland, can then?


Totally be honest. Most heartland clubs support has been eradicated by contest changes to the structure of the sport. And lack of ambition by there clubs.plus as Bramleyrhino said, lazy marketing etc by clubs. Combine the 2 and there's always going to be problems. Plus just how much football's taken over can't be underestimated.
My problem with the new clubs. Is yes they'll get support initially, but can they keep them. History shows that this is the problem.

Like I put, this really needs to be both together (heartlands & Expansion). To make it work. Reckless abandonment of what's kept us going for risk hopes could destroy what's already been built. Staying as we are could see us stagnate.

It's intresting though most of the people massively advocating total expansion, don't support clubs that will be effected by this. You can't help thinking if it involved there clubs losing a SL place for an expansion team. Would they be so keen.
Hull KR the pride of East Hull.
Re: North America
Post Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:06 pm
Posted by Call Me God on Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:06 pm
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wire-quin wrote:
Why because its frozen for half the year so they can play their homes games in Manchester and Newcastle?

Exactly.....
To play a group of 11 or 12 games "on the road" when in reality most of your squad are near their homes and then again at the season ending 8's or play offs again have a block of games is unfair to the teams who will have to travel weekly to accommodate their inclement weather.....if they want to play then let them play indoors....1 week home, 1 week away like everyone else.......they have 12 straight home games scheduled for 2018......and each of their opponents will have landed the day before KO.......level playing-field?
JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES?????
£20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000.
The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover.

There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT:
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