Re: Toronto v Toulouse as part of Magic weekend? : Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:59 pm  

bramleyrhino wrote:

I'd be interested to see your working out on that one. How would Featherstone develop the revenue, the commercial income, the ticket revenue and the talent required to become a sustainable, competitive and above all, growing, Super League club?

Good article this is, expansion lover.

PROMOTING expansion or supporting the existing grassroots?

It seems that this is the one question that constantly sends the game up a cul-de-sac and never really gets resolved to anyone’s satisfaction.

The argument raged again this week when it was announced that Toronto would forfeit their home game against Toulouse and play it as a curtain raiser at Magic.

You would have thought this game should be seen a positive – the punters get to see an extra game involving the team that seems on a headlong mission to Super League.

It will also, in a quirky way, bring in more publicity than sadly one more domestic fixture would not do.

However, that is not how it has played out across towns across the heartlands.

And just like when London Broncos and Paris St Germain leap-frogged Keighley to get into the inaugural Super League, or when Catalans’ elevation to the top flight and subsequent protection from relegation, there is a cry of preferential treatment.

The Magic selection is an interesting one - not least because Bradford Bulls had already been allowed to peep through the cracks of St James Park that weekend with their Championship 1 fixture at Newcastle.

If they wanted to sell more tickets and maybe boost rugby league in the north east (and I assume that was one of the early points of Magic) then putting that clash on would have killed two birds with one stone.

If handled well the Toronto experiment has the potential to bring something different to our game that is crying out for innovation.

But we still need a strategy to monetise their presence (and Catalans’ for that matter) rather than it being just another novelty outpost.

Not only that, those clubs need to grow the game and develop talent on their own patches not simply trawl the world — and the northern heartlands in particular — for off the peg talent.

Rugby league cannot afford to have too many teams — and I don’t mean just outpost organisations – creaming off talent without doing anything to top up the playing well.

If the game eventually withers in traditional heartlands — because their pro teams have been sidelined — then where are those players going to come from?

You can see why fans of say Halifax, Leigh, Featherstone and Batley can be irked by Toronto.

But the potential problem for the game is more long-term than simply a few noses being put out of joint.

Re: Toronto v Toulouse as part of Magic weekend? : Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:39 pm  

Budgiezilla wrote:

Good article this is, expansion lover.

PROMOTING expansion or supporting the existing grassroots?

It seems that this is the one question that constantly sends the game up a cul-de-sac and never really gets resolved to anyone’s satisfaction.

The argument raged again this week when it was announced that Toronto would forfeit their home game against Toulouse and play it as a curtain raiser at Magic.

You would have thought this game should be seen a positive – the punters get to see an extra game involving the team that seems on a headlong mission to Super League.

It will also, in a quirky way, bring in more publicity than sadly one more domestic fixture would not do.

However, that is not how it has played out across towns across the heartlands.

And just like when London Broncos and Paris St Germain leap-frogged Keighley to get into the inaugural Super League, or when Catalans’ elevation to the top flight and subsequent protection from relegation, there is a cry of preferential treatment.

The Magic selection is an interesting one - not least because Bradford Bulls had already been allowed to peep through the cracks of St James Park that weekend with their Championship 1 fixture at Newcastle.

If they wanted to sell more tickets and maybe boost rugby league in the north east (and I assume that was one of the early points of Magic) then putting that clash on would have killed two birds with one stone.

If handled well the Toronto experiment has the potential to bring something different to our game that is crying out for innovation.

But we still need a strategy to monetise their presence (and Catalans’ for that matter) rather than it being just another novelty outpost.

Not only that, those clubs need to grow the game and develop talent on their own patches not simply trawl the world — and the northern heartlands in particular — for off the peg talent.

Rugby league cannot afford to have too many teams — and I don’t mean just outpost organisations – creaming off talent without doing anything to top up the playing well.

If the game eventually withers in traditional heartlands — because their pro teams have been sidelined — then where are those players going to come from?

You can see why fans of say Halifax, Leigh, Featherstone and Batley can be irked by Toronto.

But the potential problem for the game is more long-term than simply a few noses being put out of joint.

Firstly, I don't understand why you think "expansion lover" is some sort of insult. It really isn't.

Secondly. It's not a good article. It's a rant. For starters, it calls out expansion clubs for their contribution to the talent pool, yet there have never been more professional French players than there currently are.

If you're trying to convince me that Featherstone could sustain a competitive and growing SL club, you're failing miserably.

D-: Must try harder.

Re: Toronto v Toulouse as part of Magic weekend? : Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:13 pm  

Try telling that to a Keighley Cougars supporter.....expansion lover/football fan

The Cougarmania craze swept through the town in the mid-90s and crowd attendances increased to over 5,000. The head coach steered the club to promotion into the top flight but due to another re-structure within the leagues the Cougars were denied promotion (despite, some would argue, being an influential force in the creation of the Super League).

Re: Toronto v Toulouse as part of Magic weekend? : Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:44 pm  

Budgiezilla wrote:

Try telling that to a Keighley Cougars supporter.....expansion lover/football fan

The Cougarmania craze swept through the town in the mid-90s and crowd attendances increased to over 5,000. The head coach steered the club to promotion into the top flight but due to another re-structure within the leagues the Cougars were denied promotion (despite, some would argue, being an influential force in the creation of the Super League).

Cant argue with the "wrongdoing" at the time regarding Keighley, they had earned their shot at the "big time".
However, at present, that is not the key issue.
The "game" has to decide where it wants to be in 5,10,20 years time and how to get there.

IF we close the doors to "expansion" and bin off Catalan, Toulouse and Toronto and tell them to go and do their own thing, would that be a positive for RL is either the UK, France or North America or, for the game as a whole ?

It's all about investment into the sport.

IF Toronto was to become a major force in SL and be the catalyst to the sport putting down proper roots in North America, having one less European club in SL would be a very small price to pay and if done properly, with some serious additional revenue coming into the game then, where is the problem.

Supporters of lower end SL and top Championship clubs will feel aggrieved that their club is being wronged but, a vibrant, prosperous sport has to be preferable to having 20 or so heartland clubs struggling to make ends meet and following a sport with less profile than womens netball.

We are so far behind Football, Rugby Union and cricket (and still losing ground) that something does have to be done or, we have to accept that we are a small time sport only enjoyed by middle aged blokes from former pit towns and eventually, we mat have to revert to amateur or semi pro status.
This might not be the end of the world for some but, personally, I always thought that RL was far, far, better than that.

Re: Toronto v Toulouse as part of Magic weekend? : Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:40 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Cant argue with the "wrongdoing" at the time regarding Keighley, they had earned their shot at the "big time".
However, at present, that is not the key issue.
The "game" has to decide where it wants to be in 5,10,20 years time and how to get there.

IF we close the doors to "expansion" and bin off Catalan, Toulouse and Toronto and tell them to go and do their own thing, would that be a positive for RL is either the UK, France or North America or, for the game as a whole ?

It's all about investment into the sport.

IF Toronto was to become a major force in SL and be the catalyst to the sport putting down proper roots in North America, having one less European club in SL would be a very small price to pay and if done properly, with some serious additional revenue coming into the game then, where is the problem.

Supporters of lower end SL and top Championship clubs will feel aggrieved that their club is being wronged but, a vibrant, prosperous sport has to be preferable to having 20 or so heartland clubs struggling to make ends meet and following a sport with less profile than womens netball.

We are so far behind Football, Rugby Union and cricket (and still losing ground) that something does have to be done or, we have to accept that we are a small time sport only enjoyed by middle aged blokes from former pit towns and eventually, we mat have to revert to amateur or semi pro status.
This might not be the end of the world for some but, personally, I always thought that RL was far, far, better than that.

I agree with this. I really don't see why Budgiezilla has to throw around "expansion / football lover" (where the latter came from is only his guess) as its some sort of put-down.

I'm a fan of the sport first and foremost. I have my personal views on the state of the sport and I have my personal views on what I think needs to be done to address those issues. I've worked in marketing for a long time, and I've also worked with professional sports clubs, so I come from at least some position of experience.

I know my views don't always meet universal agreement, which is sort of what makes internet forums what they are, but I'm happy to put my reasons out there. If I felt that this sport could prosper by focusing its efforts in the heartlands, then I'll be happy, but my view is that the realities of modern sport don't allow that. Modern professional sport relies too heavily on television and commercial revenue, and we simply don't provide the audience that businesses want to (or at least, want to pay to) reach - that harms commercial income coming directly into the sport, and it harms our value to TV broadcasters. Yes, Keighley got shafted, but that was more than two decades ago. The realities of professional sport have moved on at a pace far greater than we have.

What I want is to see the best players possible, in the best facilities possible, and where those players are earning a fair income from their efforts. At the moment, we don't offer that. It's why we aren't attracting and retaining top talent, it's why clubs still aren't able to invest in facilities and why we have a salary cap that is around £1m less in real terms than it was in 1999.

The best way to address that in my view, given that the heartlands clubs clearly can't market themselves appropriately, is to tap into new audiences and new markets. Whilst America does represent a leap of faith, it is currently one of few viable options that we have.

Re: Toronto v Toulouse as part of Magic weekend? : Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:15 pm  

"I agree with this. I really don't see why Budgiezilla has to throw around "expansion / football lover" (where the latter came from is only his guess) as its some sort of put-down."

Sorry, I'll stop it now.....

Re: Toronto v Toulouse as part of Magic weekend? : Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:59 am  

Budgiezilla wrote:

"I agree with this. I really don't see why Budgiezilla has to throw around "expansion / football lover" (where the latter came from is only his guess) as its some sort of put-down."

Sorry, I'll stop it now.....

Well done Keighley....attracting 5 gates of over 5k for games against Bradford (9 miles) and Halifax(12 miles).....outstanding work.......but in terms of expansionism, as much use as a chocolate tea-pot

What type of expansionism do we want......?
a/ Bigger TV deals and sponsors with very little substance and youth development and average crowds of 5k
b/ Youth development and more local interaction but with crowds in the 3/4k region?
c/ Billionaires throwing cash at the game but with no plan other than "if they watch it once they'll be hooked"?

Re: Magic Weekend - Toronto v Toulouse : Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:30 am  

Looks like Toronto might have another "home" game here in blighty in 2018:- https://www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/article/5 ... fpack-away

Looks like Toronto might have another "home" game here in blighty in 2018:- https://www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/article/5 ... fpack-away

Re: Magic Weekend - Toronto v Toulouse : Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:50 am  

Tigerade wrote: Looks like Toronto might have another "home" game here in blighty in 2018:- https://www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/article/5 ... fpack-away

Tigerade wrote: Looks like Toronto might have another "home" game here in blighty in 2018:- https://www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/article/5 ... fpack-away

Re: Magic Weekend - Toronto v Toulouse : Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:36 am  

By the time Toronto play their first match in Canada in 2018 on May 5th half of their supporters will have lost interest!