Re: Under licencing: move Halifax to Nova Scotia, Canada : Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:14 am  

leedsnsouths wrote:

While were at it lets move Catalan to Barcelona, for the same reasons.

Not a stupid idea if the circumstances were right.

If Catalans Dragons could guarantee at least 15,000 fans every week in Barcelona (they got 18,000 there for a one off game against Warrington), then moving there, assuming a decent stadium, would be a great development for rugby league.

The original club could be renamed Perpignan, and hopefully have great Super League local derbies with the new Barcelona-based Catalans Dragons and Toulouse Olympique.

Re: Under licencing: move Halifax to Nova Scotia, Canada : Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:40 am  

If the potential for RL in France is so great, then why in the last 80 years hasn't a home-grown league managed to flourish to the extent that we're not now talking just about how SL can catch up with the NRL, but also Elite One? And looking forward to a nailed on Australia / France world cup final?

What's different now compared to the last 80 years+?

Re: Under licencing: move Halifax to Nova Scotia, Canada : Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:32 pm  

HXSparky wrote:

If the potential for RL in France is so great, then why in the last 80 years hasn't a home-grown league managed to flourish to the extent that we're not now talking just about how SL can catch up with the NRL, but also Elite One? And looking forward to a nailed on Australia / France world cup final?

What's different now compared to the last 80 years+?

What's different now is the rise of a French-player based club named Toulouse Olympique, which will soon be in Super League. That rise to SL will put in motion a local derby that will attract fans, and a growth in the junior structure already in existence at Toulouse, and thus the growth of the French player pool divided between Catalans and Toulouse. Should Avignon in southeast France also join Super League, given its rich junior history, then the player pool will expand further, giving the French national team a world competitive roster of players by 2025-2027.

Re: Under licencing: move Halifax to Nova Scotia, Canada : Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:52 pm  

HXSparky wrote:

If the potential for RL in France is so great, then why in the last 80 years hasn't a home-grown league managed to flourish to the extent that we're not now talking just about how SL can catch up with the NRL, but also Elite One? And looking forward to a nailed on Australia / France world cup final?

What's different now compared to the last 80 years+?

No Vichy Government?

Rugby league was banned in France 77 years ago. Clubs had all of their facilities, kits, equipment and money handed over to rugby union and volleyball clubs. French RL spent decades struggling after the ban was lifted. They weren’t even allowed to use the word “rugby” as part of their sport until 1991.

Whereas now RL is looking like it’s as strong or stronger in Southern France as it was in the 1930s when it was becoming highly popular.

I’m very pleased that Catalans stayed up and look forward to Toulouse’s rise. I too think the rivalry between those two sides will be great for the game.

Re: Under licencing: move Halifax to Nova Scotia, Canada : Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:34 pm  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

What's different now is the rise of a French-player based club named Toulouse Olympique, which will soon be in Super League. That rise to SL will put in motion a local derby that will attract fans, and a growth in the junior structure already in existence at Toulouse, and thus the growth of the French player pool divided between Catalans and Toulouse. Should Avignon in southeast France also join Super League, given its rich junior history, then the player pool will expand further, giving the French national team a world competitive roster of players by 2025-2027.

So basically what you are saying in response to HXSparky's question is...

The home grown French league is dire at best as French teams are desperate to get into SL.

Re: Under licencing: move Halifax to Nova Scotia, Canada : Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:07 am  

Psychedelic Casual wrote: No Vichy Government? Rugby league was banned in France 77 years ago. Clubs had all of their facilities, kits, equipment and money handed over to rugby union and volleyball clubs. French RL spent decades struggling after the ban was lifted. They weren’t even allowed to use the word “rugby” as part of their sport until 1991. Whereas now RL is looking like it’s as strong or stronger in Southern France as it was in the 1930s when it was becoming highly popular. I’m very pleased that Catalans stayed up and look forward to Toulouse’s rise. I too think the rivalry between those two sides will be great for the game. For those who like a decent read https://www.amazon.co.uk/Forbidden-Game-Untold-French-League/dp/1901347052#reader_B006X38B1I

Psychedelic Casual wrote: No Vichy Government? Rugby league was banned in France 77 years ago. Clubs had all of their facilities, kits, equipment and money handed over to rugby union and volleyball clubs. French RL spent decades struggling after the ban was lifted. They weren’t even allowed to use the word “rugby” as part of their sport until 1991. Whereas now RL is looking like it’s as strong or stronger in Southern France as it was in the 1930s when it was becoming highly popular. I’m very pleased that Catalans stayed up and look forward to Toulouse’s rise. I too think the rivalry between those two sides will be great for the game. For those who like a decent read https://www.amazon.co.uk/Forbidden-Game-Untold-French-League/dp/1901347052#reader_B006X38B1I

Re: Under licencing: move Halifax to Nova Scotia, Canada : Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:17 am  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

If the new north American clubs are successful, and start up junior structures, and can get into the schools, then expect there to be a surplus of north American rugby league players in ten years. Many of those players will likely get contracts in the NRL and Super League, and some with the stronger Championship sides like Villeneuve, Widnes, Wakefield, and Leigh. Meanwhile the Aussies who can't get an NRL contract because of all the north Americans will also move to Super League or the Championship. It only needs four big cities like Toronto, Montreal, New York and Boston to be successful by 2023 and you will see north American players dominate our game in ten years.

There's no doubt about it, this will happen. People may laugh and joke but give it 10 years and the majority of players over here will be from part of America.

Re: Under licencing: move Halifax to Nova Scotia, Canada : Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:13 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

In reply to the op,
What do the supporters of RL want and what do the RFL want from the game in 5/10/20 years time and, more importantly, how do they expect this to be achieved.

And that's the millon dollar question, right? Because what this forum regularly shows is that supporters have vastly different views on what they want from the sport, and how to achieve it (not that that's necessarily a bad thing).

From my own personal view, what I would like to see from the sport is competitive fixtures, involving the best possible players, playing in front of full and modern stadiums, developing in modern facilities and earning a good living from the sport.

The way to do that is to increase the level of money coming into the sport - from commercial, television and from supporters. Thats the reality of modern, professional sport. Where I think I disagree with some people in this forum is how to do that.

To achieve the above, the game needs to be talking to new audiences - the audiences that advertisers and broadcasters want to reach - and my belief is that expansion and licensing is the best way to do that.

If we want to achieve the above, we need to change the fact that the sport in the UK is strongest in the areas where the economy is amongst the weakest. When we insist that the future of the sport lies in small towns and cities where the High Streets are made up predominantly of bookmakers, pawnbrokers and takeaways, we have no right to be surprised or outraged that the only brands that want to support the sport are online bookies and canned mushy peas.

North America, whilst I agree it should be approached carefully, represents a very real opportunity to do that. Canada and Amercia represent new audiences, in big cities, big media markets and big commercial markets. Yes, they're crowded markets, but I believe RL does offer something of a USP in those areas. A small slice a big pie can offer us more than an big slice of a small pie.

The heartlands of the sport are and should always be important, but we can't continue to permit a situation where clubs can continually vote to make it harder to retain our existing talent by voting against even inflation-linked increases to the salary cap, or where clubs cannot sell tickets without pricing them at rock-bottom prices, where clubs opt out of competing in the World Club series because they don't think they can sell enough tickets, or where clubs don't produce elite talent through their youth structures, without that being challenged.

Different people may have different views on what they want from the sport, or they may have different views on how to achieve those aims above, but that's why I support expansion and licencing.

Re: Under licencing: move Halifax to Nova Scotia, Canada : Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:21 pm  

A very sensible and thought-provoking post, bramleyrhino (unlike the original that started this thread). What you say makes a lot of sense, but I'm not sure that the world at large will ever want to welcome the game we love with enough enthusiasm to make it work? It's not that we shouldn't try, but the game's administrators have demonstrated a large degree of ineptitude to be able to progress in any meaningful or strategic manner for many a year. Everything we do seems to be a knee-jerk based on who has a few pounds/dollars/euros to flash around.

I still maintain (and I've said this before) that expansion and licensing is the bees knees for many fans... just so long as "your" team is included in the party. What would a poll of all SL fans be if the question was whether they supported licensing or not if their own team was deprived a licence? An easy response here of course would be "of course we'd be in support", but if it was for real...?

As an example, if we take expansionism to it's extreme, let's assume that West Yorkshire has just one licence in the new world order of rugby league. Given recent history, the RFL may decide that Odsal is where the West Yorkshire team should play. Would Cas, Leeds, Wakey and Huddersfield fans all be happy to abandon their team to trek over to Bradford? I think not.

Re: Under licencing: move Halifax to Nova Scotia, Canada : Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:19 am  

HXSparky wrote:

A very sensible and thought-provoking post, bramleyrhino (unlike the original that started this thread). What you say makes a lot of sense, but I'm not sure that the world at large will ever want to welcome the game we love with enough enthusiasm to make it work? It's not that we shouldn't try, but the game's administrators have demonstrated a large degree of ineptitude to be able to progress in any meaningful or strategic manner for many a year. Everything we do seems to be a knee-jerk based on who has a few pounds/dollars/euros to flash around.

I still maintain (and I've said this before) that expansion and licensing is the bees knees for many fans... just so long as "your" team is included in the party. What would a poll of all SL fans be if the question was whether they supported licensing or not if their own team was deprived a licence? An easy response here of course would be "of course we'd be in support", but if it was for real...?

As an example, if we take expansionism to it's extreme, let's assume that West Yorkshire has just one licence in the new world order of rugby league. Given recent history, the RFL may decide that Odsal is where the West Yorkshire team should play. Would Cas, Leeds, Wakey and Huddersfield fans all be happy to abandon their team to trek over to Bradford? I think not.

"Assuming that west Yorkshire had only one licence" is not what expansionists are aiming for. Serious expansionists want to see a strong roster of west Yorkshire teams like Leeds for certain, and some out of Bradford, Huddersfield, Castleford, Wakefield. But we don't need all of them, esp when there are two strong Humberside teams, and strong teams at Wigan, St Helens and Warrington to be accommodated. Expansionists can tolerate 8 M62 teams, but demand at least two French teams, and two north American teams, with more to follow.

Ideal 14 team Super League for 2021:

Wigan, St Helens, Warrington,
Leeds, Huddersfield, Castleford,
Hull FC, Hull KR,
London,
Catalans, Toulouse,
Toronto, New York, Montreal

Ideal 16 team Super League for 2025:

Wigan, St Helens, Warrington,
Leeds, Huddersfield, Castleford,
Hull FC, Hull KR,
London,
Catalans, Toulouse, Paris
Toronto, New York, Montreal, Boston

The latter will provide the ideal setup for the 2025 World Cup, which will have to start in mid-October to avoid the snow.