Re: Zak Hardaker : Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:32 pm  

Willzay wrote:

You were saying the same thing the other day

No I didn't. I said he was an idiot. I did not in any way say he shouldn't get any support if he has a problem

Regards

King James

[Wildthing]

Re: Zak Hardaker : Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:30 am  

FlexWheeler wrote:

Hardaker is a victim, he needs our love and support.

Is Adam walker getting everyone's love and support, the victim that he is?

Oh wait, he's not as talented as hardaker.

Correct - some sheer hypocrisy going on here for sure.

Re: Zak Hardaker : Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:07 am  

Lebron James wrote:

No I didn't. I said he was an idiot. I did not in any way say he shouldn't get any support if he has a problem

Regards

King James

Is there support out there for people who are idiots?

[Wildthing]

Re: Zak Hardaker : Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:29 am  

jools wrote:

Is there support out there for people who are idiots?

An answer he should surely know?

Re: Zak Hardaker : Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:43 am  

vastman wrote:

The Philippines had a drug problem now apparently it doesn't - wonder why. Oh and believe me I am advocating the same for the UK and those gutters known as Europe and the USA.

I live in The Philippines and we still have a massive drug problem. Plus a lot of dead people, some of whom might have been involved in drugs. What the President has done is to give the green light to shooting anyone you don't like and then tossing a piece of cardboard with the words "drug addict" onto the body; there will be a minimum of investigation takes place.

So no, you wouldn't want it in the UK.

Re: Zak Hardaker : Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:08 pm  

alleycat wrote:

I live in The Philippines and we still have a massive drug problem. Plus a lot of dead people, some of whom might have been involved in drugs. What the President has done is to give the green light to shooting anyone you don't like and then tossing a piece of cardboard with the words "drug addict" onto the body; there will be a minimum of investigation takes place.

So no, you wouldn't want it in the UK.

There would be loads of shot addicts in peoples back gardens/houses and sheds while they are in the process of financing their vile habit.

Would be less real "victims" of drug taking.

Re: Zak Hardaker : Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:13 pm  

bren2k wrote: Literally the first Google search result. More recent information - Portugal's approach commended by the INCB. Just like the gun laws in Australia, there was a drop in gun related deaths due to other interventions aside from tightening the law regards automatic weapons that actually had by far the greatest difference. From TRANSFORM one of the voices regards drug controls. "However, such improvements are not solely the result of the decriminalisation policy; Portugal’s shift towards a more health-centred approach to drugs, as well as wider health and social policy changes, are equally, if not more, responsible for the positive changes observed." "Portugal complemented its policy of decriminalisation by allocating greater resources across the drugs field, expanding and improving prevention, treatment, harm reduction and social reintegration programmes. The introduction of these measures coincided with an expansion of the Portuguese welfare state, which included a guaranteed minimum income. While decriminalisation played an important role, it is likely that the positive outcomes described below would not have been achieved without these wider health and social reforms" The mentioned deaths of 3 per million is due to OVERDOSING in ADULTS ON THE STREET, not long term use, not those considered to be under adult age and yet comparisons are made to total deaths from all drug related deaths before decriminalisation, again, this is yet more statistical massaging. Sure for families of those that were drug users this is a good thing, however the supposed drop of 80 overdose deaths as per your link to 30 over a 15/16 year period is in my honest opinion NOT significant, you will also note that there has being a doubling of overdose deaths from 2012 to 2015 12 reported in 2012 to 3 per million in 2015 (Portugal pop circa 10M). what are the figures for all years, either overdose on the street or deaths from drug use overall? In a country that already had historically low deaths comparative to other EU states at the time of decriminalisation and comparing rates by country from 2001 to 2016/17 is just wrong/misrepresents the facts. Also, aside from the stated change in how drug use was addressed from a health POV and access to health treatment changed massively, you also have the fact that the Portuguese economy had being in freefall for much of the last 25 years, of the last few years that has recovered quite a lot, employment rates are up, manufacturing and low grade employment wages are up, more people in work means fewer people taking drugs, this is a known fact. So, yes, the headline figure from the latest results is a drop but drug deaths were already at/or below the EU average back in 2001 BEFORE decriminalisation and other interventions and economy has by far a greater effect than simply decriminalisation in itself. To believe that decriminalisation would work in any given country is patently rubbish not backed up by actual facts. HTH

bren2k wrote: Literally the first Google search result. More recent information - Portugal's approach commended by the INCB. Just like the gun laws in Australia, there was a drop in gun related deaths due to other interventions aside from tightening the law regards automatic weapons that actually had by far the greatest difference. From TRANSFORM one of the voices regards drug controls. "However, such improvements are not solely the result of the decriminalisation policy; Portugal’s shift towards a more health-centred approach to drugs, as well as wider health and social policy changes, are equally, if not more, responsible for the positive changes observed." "Portugal complemented its policy of decriminalisation by allocating greater resources across the drugs field, expanding and improving prevention, treatment, harm reduction and social reintegration programmes. The introduction of these measures coincided with an expansion of the Portuguese welfare state, which included a guaranteed minimum income. While decriminalisation played an important role, it is likely that the positive outcomes described below would not have been achieved without these wider health and social reforms" The mentioned deaths of 3 per million is due to OVERDOSING in ADULTS ON THE STREET, not long term use, not those considered to be under adult age and yet comparisons are made to total deaths from all drug related deaths before decriminalisation, again, this is yet more statistical massaging. Sure for families of those that were drug users this is a good thing, however the supposed drop of 80 overdose deaths as per your link to 30 over a 15/16 year period is in my honest opinion NOT significant, you will also note that there has being a doubling of overdose deaths from 2012 to 2015 12 reported in 2012 to 3 per million in 2015 (Portugal pop circa 10M). what are the figures for all years, either overdose on the street or deaths from drug use overall? In a country that already had historically low deaths comparative to other EU states at the time of decriminalisation and comparing rates by country from 2001 to 2016/17 is just wrong/misrepresents the facts. Also, aside from the stated change in how drug use was addressed from a health POV and access to health treatment changed massively, you also have the fact that the Portuguese economy had being in freefall for much of the last 25 years, of the last few years that has recovered quite a lot, employment rates are up, manufacturing and low grade employment wages are up, more people in work means fewer people taking drugs, this is a known fact. So, yes, the headline figure from the latest results is a drop but drug deaths were already at/or below the EU average back in 2001 BEFORE decriminalisation and other interventions and economy has by far a greater effect than simply decriminalisation in itself. To believe that decriminalisation would work in any given country is patently rubbish not backed up by actual facts. HTH

Re: Zak Hardaker : Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:25 pm  

alleycat wrote:

I live in The Philippines and we still have a massive drug problem. Plus a lot of dead people, some of whom might have been involved in drugs. What the President has done is to give the green light to shooting anyone you don't like and then tossing a piece of cardboard with the words "drug addict" onto the body; there will be a minimum of investigation takes place.

So no, you wouldn't want it in the UK.

no, certainly not a gunning down on the street but evidence based and via a judgement of ones peers. if you are caught dealing drugs you are removed from society forever at no further financial burden to the rest of society never mind not destroying peoples lives. Equally murderers and other heinous criminals that society will not miss nor do we want to pay billions to keep them in a certain standard of living only for them to be put back into society at some point so they can repeat such.
yup soft on crime always works out!

Re: Zak Hardaker : Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:32 am  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

no, certainly not a gunning down on the street but evidence based and via a judgement of ones peers. if you are caught dealing drugs you are removed from society forever at no further financial burden to the rest of society never mind not destroying peoples lives. Equally murderers and other heinous criminals that society will not miss nor do we want to pay billions to keep them in a certain standard of living only for them to be put back into society at some point so they can repeat such.
yup soft on crime always works out!

Really that''s your answwer for someone who say has been caught knocking out £50 of weed to a friend, or even something more serious like an ounce of coke or whatever, is to remove them from society forever, wow I've I got the wrong end of the stick here because I've never heard that even from the harshest critcs of drugs.

Re: Zak Hardaker : Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:05 am  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

Also, aside from the stated change in how drug use was addressed from a health POV and access to health treatment changed massively, you also have the fact that the Portuguese economy had being in freefall for much of the last 25 years, of the last few years that has recovered quite a lot, employment rates are up, manufacturing and low grade employment wages are up, more people in work means fewer people taking drugs, this is a known fact.

If it's a known fact that more people in work means fewer drugs,how do you explain say Scotland who hit a 26 year low of 3.8% unemployment rate, but yet has massive drug problems (biggest users of Coke in the world per Capita apparently) and had 160 drug related deaths per 1million, by far the most. Similarly England & Wales have relatively low unemployment rates of around 4.5%, but are known as one of the biggest users of drugs around Europe (highest amount of heroin users in Europe) & have 66 drug related deaths per million. But one of the highest unemployment rates going in Europe at 21% is Greece and although their issues with drugs has increased, it is still incredibly low compared to just about every European Country. I'd say things such as social & economic issues play the biggest role in drug use. You only have to look at Countries such as the US, UK and even Aus to see it's not that straight forward.