Re: Abuse from fans : Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:27 am  

Bullseye wrote:

IMO there is far too much scrutiny on refs decisions and it doesn't do any good. Often the TV slow down incidents and then examine them frame by frame from many angles. The critics then use that to criticise a ref that got one view of it in real time and had to make an immediate call. Fans don't see it from the ref's perspective at all and have no appreciation of how hard it is.

In the old days the ref made a call and it was accepted without the scrutiny of today. I suspect they got as many decisions wrong then as they do now. They just weren't under the spotlight then and that goes towards the perception that refs are poorer now.

Is there any purpose in minutely scrutinising a ref's decision and then criticising it?

Think as fans we are all guilty of it to a degree? Just seems to have escalated last few season.The game is certainly faster, it also seems the players are chirping at the ref constantly. I think we need to see the refs get tough on backchat on pitch and when the players tow the line and show respect to the ref it may filter back into stands? Maybe not but something needs to be done

Re: Abuse from fans : Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:36 am  

craig hkr wrote:

Think as fans we are all guilty of it to a degree? Just seems to have escalated last few season.The game is certainly faster, it also seems the players are chirping at the ref constantly. I think we need to see the refs get tough on backchat on pitch and when the players tow the line and show respect to the ref it may filter back into stands? Maybe not but something needs to be done

It would help if the huge army of Sky rentagobs didn't bang on about every decision in every game, and try to prove the officials wrong; they even have the pointless Cummins involved, as the final arbiter on whether a decision is correct or not. A lot of spectator dissatisfaction is fuelled by things said during commentary in my view.

That's not to diminish the behaviour of many fans who are actually watching live - where chants about the referees personal habits are commonplace - or the increasingly chippy behaviour of players, which I agree has escalated in recent years. It needs sorting right across the game - from jr right up to SL - or we'll end up with no referees willing to do the job.

Re: Abuse from fans : Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:00 am  

Anybody actually read the reason why two of our refs quit recently? Certainly wasn't because of fans

.........................

The pair (Stokes and Thomason) quit rugby league’s governing body earlier this year and claim members of the Match Officials Department have been subjected to humiliating abuse, including the homophobic taunting of one referee.

They also say complaints have been swept under the carpet by the RFL’s human resources department and chief operating officer Ralph Rimmer.

Stokes said: “It’s the least professional organisation in the world.

“I witnessed homophobic abuse being thrown about by a very senior member of the match officials department to another member of staff.

“This is supposed to be a professional organisation, yet here we are in a pub while somebody gets absolutely torn into about being gay – delving into his personal life and making a mockery of it because he happened to be with another man.

“He sat there and took it for about half-an-hour. I reported this to Ralph Rimmer when I left, but nothing has happened about it.”

Thomason resigned after refusing to take a wage reduction and said: “Would Ralph Rimmer or anyone else at the RFL take a 50 per cent pay cut to do the same job? No, they wouldn’t. It was a matter of principle for me.

“I’ve been mistreated and mismanaged. It’s such a shame because we both loved doing what we were doing but the politics made it impossible.”

Re: Abuse from fans : Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:01 am  

bren2k wrote:

It would help if the huge army of Sky rentagobs didn't bang on about every decision in every game, and try to prove the officials wrong; they even have the pointless Cummins involved, as the final arbiter on whether a decision is correct or not. A lot of spectator dissatisfaction is fuelled by things said during commentary in my view.

That's not to diminish the behaviour of many fans who are actually watching live - where chants about the referees personal habits are commonplace - or the increasingly chippy behaviour of players, which I agree has escalated in recent years. It needs sorting right across the game - from jr right up to SL - or we'll end up with no referees willing to do the job.

I agree but, the refs can help themselves during the game.
When was the last time that you saw a ref march a team back 10 metres for dissent.
This would instantly stop players constantly questioning their decisions. Maybe a couple of 10 minute spells on the sidelines just for good measure.

[Bullseye]

Re: Abuse from fans : Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:12 am  

As with most things it's complicated. I agree that there are a number of issues. Too much backchat. Too much emphasis on criticism by TV. Fans going OTT at games. Lack of support to refs from the governing body.

Is there any wonder there are problems with all that going on? For me the solution comes from the governing body. They set the agenda and the culture. They can influence the support referees get and the TV side of things. If refs got more support then that would translate onto the field and on the terraces eventually.

Re: Abuse from fans : Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:21 am  

bren2k wrote:

It would help if the huge army of Sky rentagobs didn't bang on about every decision in every game, and try to prove the officials wrong; they even have the pointless Cummins involved, as the final arbiter on whether a decision is correct or not. A lot of spectator dissatisfaction is fuelled by things said during commentary in my view.

I got sick of it, and the inclusion of Cummins to provide a 'voice of experience and reason' was pretty much the final straw, to the point I mostly only watch Wakefield games on Sky when I can't get to the actual game. From Eddie and Stevo with their "was there a hand in?!", "has the ball come free?!", "is that daylight between ball and fingernail?!", "was the trailing leg in touch?!" to Phil Clarke with his over the top "surely, surely, surely, please, please, please!" begging for any remotely questionable decision to be referred to the VR. If they think that's going to encourage new viewers to the game, they're sadly mistaken.

On the subject of fans hurling abuse electronically, it's just an inevitable consequence of social, or more accurately named, anti-social media. When platforms like Twitter and Facebook aren't policed appropriately, there is almost carte blanche for people to say whatever they want to whoever they like and feel like they can get away with it.

Re: Abuse from fans : Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:25 pm  

I think Sky have cultivated an obsession with refs. They seem to obsess over every decision, slowing them down, showing them over and over and banging on about incidents long after play has moved on. Having video ref and an ex ref in the commentary box obviously doesn't help. Then in the interviews with the coaches after the game they almost always seem to ask the losing coach about 'harsh decisions' or similar, prompting them to criticise the ref, which they inevitably will do, knowing no one will ever call them out and say "No, you lost because your team weren't good enough".

Add all of this up, and it's no wonder some fans spend more time berating the ref than watching the game. If we really wanted to change this, I'd get rid of Cummins, and have the replays of penalties, knock ons etc momentarily shown in a small box in the bottom corner of the screen, whilst the rest of the screen shows the game live, which commentators talk about, rather than the previous decision. Be strong with the Sky team and tell them to focus on the quality of the players, not the ref. Fine coaches for criticising the ref, no matter how veiled. If they have an issue with the officiating, they can follow the appropriate channels. I'd consider getting rid of the video ref too, it kills the atmosphere at games, adds a lot of time on, and ultimately increases the focus on the refs.