Re: Referees or coaches : Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:49 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Although it's frustrating when play is brought back, the centre of the 20 metre line is marked with a cross, it not that difficult to see (unless the pitch is badly cut up after heavy rain, which doesn't happen too often these days).

If the ref's didnt talk to the players, we would have a penalty fest at every game, which isn't good for anyone.

Yes I know there is a mark , but it seems to me that 4 times out of 5 they can be a few inches off it and the ref pulls them back

It is getting out of hand

Re: Referees or coaches : Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:03 pm  

Referees talking to the players isn't the issue, it's that they're miked up in games so loud you hear it all. Don't mike the refs up then you don't hear the 'coaching' which tbf is only done to prevent more penalties.

Re: Referees or coaches : Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:49 am  

Aye no problem with ref's talking to the players but just for example I think it was Thaler screaming repeatedly telling somebody he wasn't square. Why did he tell him more than once, and why does the referee pick and choose when he wants to tell somebody.

Re: Referees or coaches : Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:24 am  

When Cas played wigan Robert Hicks went to Luke Gayle walking off at half time and asked him if he was allergic to white chalk, when Gayle replied why he said cos you need to get on the goal line when told. In the second half when Wigan were attacking the line all you hear is Hicks saying Luke goal line Luke Luke and not once did he penalize him.
The refs either need to enforce rules or not bother with them at all.

Re: Referees or coaches : Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:42 am  

It depends whether you want to see a flowing game or one constantly stopping for penalties.

Coaches seem to coach players to break the rules to seek advantage, and whilst the referee is there to enforce them, the ref also needs to decide where any infringement disadvantages a team or not before blowing the whistle, in order to maintain game flow. Hence its sometimes better to tell an offside player not to get involved rather than just penalising them.

In an ideal world coaches & players would not only know and adhere to the rules, but also do it within the spirit of the game.

Re: Referees or coaches : Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:07 am  

AntonyGiant wrote:

Aye no problem with ref's talking to the players but just for example I think it was Thaler screaming repeatedly telling somebody he wasn't square. Why did he tell him more than once, and why does the referee pick and choose when he wants to tell somebody.

They do that to warn them not to get involved in the play. If a marker isn't square but stays out of play then the ref doesn't need to stop the game and give a pen.
Believe it or not the refs would like the game to flow as much as the spectators would.

Re: Referees or coaches : Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:49 am  

GUBRATS wrote:

For gods sake Mr Thaler make up your mind , either ref the game , or go and be a coach

Just watching the Wigan , Saints match , I'd suggest there needs to be clarification on how refs are going to judge when teams hold the ball in the scrum , some are calling the penalty , others are telling the players to get back , not really happy with the tactic myself , a bit too ' union ' for me

There just isn't any advantage from getting head and feed at the scrum these days, the scrum breaks so quickly and the defensive line advances so fast that the attacking team very rarely makes any ground. Holding the ball in the scrum is sometimes the only way you can win an advantage, but I agree with you, I don't like it, it feels unsportsmanlike. I'd rather get rid of the scrum or make them contested.

As for ref's coaching the players, I've said the same myself. If they're offside, penalise them. At one point Thaler was screaming so loudly for a player to stay back that he confused everyone on the pitch and brought play to a halt. It's not his job to help defenders stay onside, it's his job to penalise them if they don't.

Re: Referees or coaches : Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:38 pm  

shinymcshine wrote:

It depends whether you want to see a flowing game or one constantly stopping for penalties.

Coaches seem to coach players to break the rules to seek advantage, and whilst the referee is there to enforce them, the ref also needs to decide where any infringement disadvantages a team or not before blowing the whistle, in order to maintain game flow. Hence its sometimes better to tell an offside player not to get involved rather than just penalising them.

In an ideal world coaches & players would not only know and adhere to the rules, but also do it within the spirit of the game.

But that is where inconsistency then starts to ruin the game , let's start from scratch again , penalise what is an infringement , the coaches would then have to start coaching ' good ' play instead of coaching ' cheating '

As a sport we are poor at positive attacking innovation , far too much attention on spoiling tactics that ruin the entertainment value of the game , other sports ( footy and Union ) concentrate on cheating to gain ' penalty advantage ' , that isn't what I want to pay to see , if I did I'd watch those sports

Re: Referees or coaches : Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:03 pm  

AntonyGiant wrote:

Aye no problem with ref's talking to the players but just for example I think it was Thaler screaming repeatedly telling somebody he wasn't square. Why did he tell him more than once, and why does the referee pick and choose when he wants to tell somebody.

I'm guessing that prompted Tez's "McClorum's not stood squur thurr" the other lunchtime.

Re: Referees or coaches : Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:18 pm  

shinymcshine wrote:

It depends whether you want to see a flowing game or one constantly stopping for penalties.

Coaches seem to coach players to break the rules to seek advantage, and whilst the referee is there to enforce them, the ref also needs to decide where any infringement disadvantages a team or not before blowing the whistle, in order to maintain game flow. Hence its sometimes better to tell an offside player not to get involved rather than just penalising them.

In an ideal world coaches & players would not only know and adhere to the rules, but also do it within the spirit of the game.

Sorry but you're wrong, the players/coaches HAVE to adapt or be penalised out the game.
it is exactly the same with motorists, penalise instead of just telling because the latter simply means they'll carry on doing it because they think they can get away with it.
If you do something wrong and are penalised, you're less likely to do it again.
The coaches need to be told that refs will not instruct, they will just penalise if the players are infringing until the players stop infringing.

Referees 'coaching' you might get a free flowing game to a degree but as we see because players push things all the time (as told/trained to by their coaches) so often the games don't flow even with leniency which most fans complain about. By not referee coaching you force the players to take responsibility for their own actions, you essentially model the players to act in a way that you want them to, same as with motoring (except police don't hence why we still have tens of thousands of KSIs every year)

it's basic human psychology.