Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:11 pm  

Huddersfield1895 wrote:

When this country is out of the EU for good there will be a reduction in the amount of overseas players here.
The grannie rule will go, and some clubs better get their acts together now developing youth players.

The "grannie rule" doesn't (in most cases) make it easier for Australian players to come here. They still need to obtain a visa and unless the requirements for skilled migrant / sporting visas change, our relationship with Europe is irrelevant.

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:46 pm  

bramleyrhino wrote:

The "grannie rule" doesn't (in most cases) make it easier for Australian players to come here. They still need to obtain a visa and unless the requirements for skilled migrant / sporting visas change, our relationship with Europe is irrelevant.

It does. Some Super League clubs have used the Grannie rule to get in a player who doesn't count on the overseas rule.
This will end with us leaving the EU and i repeat, certain clubs are going to have to show more interest in youth development than they have in the recent past.
The days of the has beens and never was players from the NRL are coming to an end at long last and about time in my opinion.

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:53 pm  

Huddersfield1895 wrote:

The days of the has beens and never was players from the NRL are coming to an end at long last and about time in my opinion.

I think you'll find that the difference between the salary caps of NRL and SL and the weakness of the pound will mean that is all we'll be able to sign.

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:04 pm  

Huddersfield1895 wrote: It does. Some Super League clubs have used the Grannie rule to get in a player who doesn't count on the overseas rule. This will end with us leaving the EU and i repeat, certain clubs are going to have to show more interest in youth development than they have in the recent past. The days of the has beens and never was players from the NRL are coming to an end at long last and about time in my opinion. Having an Italian granny or Scottish uncle doesn't automatically provide a player with EU citizenship and the resulting freedom of movement rights. It's clearly laid out in the RFL operational rules: http://media.therfl.co.uk/docs/RFL%20GB ... .12.14.pdf C1:4:1 (a) An “overseas Player” is one who cannot produce satisfactory evidence to the RFL that he is a Professional Player in accordance with the EU Rules guaranteeing the free movement of workers and that either: (i) he is an EU National; or (ii) he is entitled to be lawfully employed in England as a professional rugby league Player pursuant to a valid work permit and is a National of a country which is party to either an Association Agreement, Europe Agreement or the Cotonou Agreement with the EU; or (iii) that he is a National of a country which is a current Full or Associate Member of the RLEF and has been resident in that country for four years and is a bona fide registered Player who has played a minimum of five domestic league or cup games in a domestic competition in that Full or Associate Member’s country. For the avoidance of doubt a National is defined as a person who holds a current passport for an EU member state or a country party to an Association Agreement, Europe Agreement or the Cotonou Agreement as appropriate. Even by repealing this operational rule if we lose freedom of movement, it will still be fairly easy for most Australian, Kiwi and PNG players to come here under existing sporting visa guidelines (these are a bit old, but I don't believe they have changed massively over than the quoted qualifying periods): The player must have achieved at least one of the following standards: NRL - The player has played in 50% of NRL 1st Grade appearances in NRL games including play off games but not pre season games in the qualifying period. State of Origin - The player has played in one State of Origin match in the qualifying period. International – Tier 1 Countries - The player has played in one match in the 2008(2013?) World Cup or a Tri/Four Nations Match or a Test Match in the qualifying period. International - Tier 2 Countries - The player has played one match in the 2008(2013?) World Cup or has played 50% of RLIF officially recognised International matches in the qualifying period. International - Tier 3 Countries - The player has played in 75% of RLIF/RLEF officially recognised International matches in the qualifying period. http://www.visalogic.net/uk/visa-requir ... ague/4/170 I can't think of many overseas players who have come to the UK, under a "granny rule" or not, that wouldn't meet at least one of those criteria.

Huddersfield1895 wrote: It does. Some Super League clubs have used the Grannie rule to get in a player who doesn't count on the overseas rule. This will end with us leaving the EU and i repeat, certain clubs are going to have to show more interest in youth development than they have in the recent past. The days of the has beens and never was players from the NRL are coming to an end at long last and about time in my opinion. Having an Italian granny or Scottish uncle doesn't automatically provide a player with EU citizenship and the resulting freedom of movement rights. It's clearly laid out in the RFL operational rules: http://media.therfl.co.uk/docs/RFL%20GB ... .12.14.pdf C1:4:1 (a) An “overseas Player” is one who cannot produce satisfactory evidence to the RFL that he is a Professional Player in accordance with the EU Rules guaranteeing the free movement of workers and that either: (i) he is an EU National; or (ii) he is entitled to be lawfully employed in England as a professional rugby league Player pursuant to a valid work permit and is a National of a country which is party to either an Association Agreement, Europe Agreement or the Cotonou Agreement with the EU; or (iii) that he is a National of a country which is a current Full or Associate Member of the RLEF and has been resident in that country for four years and is a bona fide registered Player who has played a minimum of five domestic league or cup games in a domestic competition in that Full or Associate Member’s country. For the avoidance of doubt a National is defined as a person who holds a current passport for an EU member state or a country party to an Association Agreement, Europe Agreement or the Cotonou Agreement as appropriate. Even by repealing this operational rule if we lose freedom of movement, it will still be fairly easy for most Australian, Kiwi and PNG players to come here under existing sporting visa guidelines (these are a bit old, but I don't believe they have changed massively over than the quoted qualifying periods): The player must have achieved at least one of the following standards: NRL - The player has played in 50% of NRL 1st Grade appearances in NRL games including play off games but not pre season games in the qualifying period. State of Origin - The player has played in one State of Origin match in the qualifying period. International – Tier 1 Countries - The player has played in one match in the 2008(2013?) World Cup or a Tri/Four Nations Match or a Test Match in the qualifying period. International - Tier 2 Countries - The player has played one match in the 2008(2013?) World Cup or has played 50% of RLIF officially recognised International matches in the qualifying period. International - Tier 3 Countries - The player has played in 75% of RLIF/RLEF officially recognised International matches in the qualifying period. http://www.visalogic.net/uk/visa-requir ... ague/4/170 I can't think of many overseas players who have come to the UK, under a "granny rule" or not, that wouldn't meet at least one of those criteria.

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:13 pm  

LifeLongHKRFan wrote:

I think you'll find that the difference between the salary caps of NRL and SL and the weakness of the pound will mean that is all we'll be able to sign.

When the new employment rules come in after we leave the EU the has beens and never was players from the NRL will not meet the criteria.

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:15 pm  

bramleyrhino wrote: Having an Italian granny or Scottish uncle doesn't automatically provide a player with EU citizenship and the resulting freedom of movement rights. It's clearly laid out in the RFL operational rules: http://media.therfl.co.uk/docs/RFL%20GB ... .12.14.pdf Even by repealing this operational rule if we lose freedom of movement, it will still be fairly easy for most Australian, Kiwi and PNG players to come here under existing sporting visa guidelines (these are a bit old, but I don't believe they have changed massively over than the quoted qualifying periods): http://www.visalogic.net/uk/visa-requir ... ague/4/170 I can't think of many overseas players who have come to the UK, under a "granny rule" or not, that wouldn't meet at least one of those criteria. HKR used the Grannie rule to good affect.

bramleyrhino wrote: Having an Italian granny or Scottish uncle doesn't automatically provide a player with EU citizenship and the resulting freedom of movement rights. It's clearly laid out in the RFL operational rules: http://media.therfl.co.uk/docs/RFL%20GB ... .12.14.pdf Even by repealing this operational rule if we lose freedom of movement, it will still be fairly easy for most Australian, Kiwi and PNG players to come here under existing sporting visa guidelines (these are a bit old, but I don't believe they have changed massively over than the quoted qualifying periods): http://www.visalogic.net/uk/visa-requir ... ague/4/170 I can't think of many overseas players who have come to the UK, under a "granny rule" or not, that wouldn't meet at least one of those criteria. HKR used the Grannie rule to good affect.

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:18 pm  

Huddersfield1895 wrote:

It does. Some Super League clubs have used the Grannie rule to get in a player who doesn't count on the overseas rule.
This will end with us leaving the EU and i repeat, certain clubs are going to have to show more interest in youth development than they have in the recent past.
The days of the has beens and never was players from the NRL are coming to an end at long last and about time in my opinion.

You're a few years out of date with this one.

You're talking about the old quota, where certain nationalities didn't count towards it and clubs would use, for example, a Maltese passport due to the players maternal grandmother.

Now, as a result of clubs getting around the quota as mentioned above, there's the Non-Fed rule, whereby it depends on where the player was trained as a youngster. It currently stands at 7. It's all written down in the RFL's rules available online, as someone has kindly dug out for you.

Your last sentence isn't right either, it's completely the opposite that's going to happen. We've just seen Pritchard, Sandow, Segeyaro and Solomona leave SL as we simply can't offer the money these guys can earn elsewhere. Has-beens and average joes will be the norm now.

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:29 pm  

Huddersfield1895 wrote:

HKR used the Grannie rule to good affect.

It's customary to provide examples....

And again, you're conflating two seperate issues.

Removal of freedom of movement for EU citizens would not affect people who aren't EU citizens (and could arguably make it easier for them) - and that applies to most Australian, NZ, PNG and South Sea Island players - the areas where most of our players come from.

The only thing that removing EU freedom of movement will probably achieve in the context of rugby league is making Morgan Escare fill out a visa form - a visa which he'll easily get because he meets the Home Offices' criteria of an elite RL player.

Even working on the basis that HKR have used some sort of "grannie rule", the player in question either needs to have EU citizenship (which having a European granny doesn't automatically grant access to) or a sporting visa (which isn't massively difficult to get for any player who has played any meaningful amount of first-grade NRL) in order to even enter the country. Based on the current visa requirements, it really wouldn't have a material impact.

Huddersfield1895 wrote:

When the new employment rules come in after we leave the EU the has beens and never was players from the NRL will not meet the criteria.

What criteria? I'm looking at the current Ins/Outs threads and there aren't any players coming to mind who wouldn't meet the current visa criteria.

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:35 pm  

bramleyrhino wrote:

It's customary to provide examples....

2008 was when the Fed trained rule was brought in to stop the granny rule. Hull KR's first season in SL was 2007 so all non quota players signed pre 2008 were exempt from the fed trained rule. I believe Ben Galea was brought in using a Maltese passport in 2008 and Mick Vella in 2007

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:54 pm  

LifeLongHKRFan wrote:

2008 was when the Fed trained rule was brought in to stop the granny rule. Hull KR's first season in SL was 2007 so all non quota players signed pre 2008 were exempt from the fed trained rule. I believe Ben Galea was brought in using a Maltese passport in 2008 and Mick Vella in 2007

Both of whom would, under today's rules, qualify for a visa. Both Vella and Galea had more than 150 NRL appearances to their name and Vella was an NSW rep player.

Any idea that having a European granny is a back-door to Super League that will soon be closed is nonsense.