Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:26 pm  

bramleyrhino wrote:

It's customary to provide examples....

And again, you're conflating two seperate issues.

Removal of freedom of movement for EU citizens would not affect people who aren't EU citizens (and could arguably make it easier for them) - and that applies to most Australian, NZ, PNG and South Sea Island players - the areas where most of our players come from.

The only thing that removing EU freedom of movement will probably achieve in the context of rugby league is making Morgan Escare fill out a visa form - a visa which he'll easily get because he meets the Home Offices' criteria of an elite RL player.

Even working on the basis that HKR have used some sort of "grannie rule", the player in question either needs to have EU citizenship (which having a European granny doesn't automatically grant access to) or a sporting visa (which isn't massively difficult to get for any player who has played any meaningful amount of first-grade NRL) in order to even enter the country. Based on the current visa requirements, it really wouldn't have a material impact.

What criteria? I'm looking at the current Ins/Outs threads and there aren't any players coming to mind who wouldn't meet the current visa criteria.

In 2 years time when we are out of the EU the British Government will bring in new rules that will put British workers first. Some businesses are in for a shock if the don't think it will affect them.

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:49 pm  

Huddersfield1895 wrote:

In 2 years time when we are out of the EU the British Government will bring in new rules that will put British workers first. Some businesses are in for a shock if the don't think it will affect them.

The government will bring in rules that put the needs of the economy first.

In the context of RL, "British workers" have had an opportunity to demonstrate that they can perform in the place of various Australians for decades. The answer is to look at the reasons why they don't have the skillsets to compete with that labour, rather than looking to surpress it. The same principle applies outside of RL too, but I'm not going to take the thread down that particular rabbit hole.

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:12 pm  

roofaldo2 wrote:

Ah the old "if we didn't have so many overseas players then we'd be world beaters" argument.
The trouble is that there aren't hundreds of good juniors being held down by overseas players. He problem is the talent pool in this country is drastically smaller than it is in Australia. Cutting the quota will only do one thing: reduce the quality of players currently playing in the British leagues. You might have the best player ever coming through the ranks, but if he's playing in a second rate division then he's never going to fulfill that potential.

Work should be done to help build and sustain the pathways from school to pro and an awful lot of that work needs to be done at school level to ensure the sport can attract the best and brightest ahead of competing sports

Agree. I would like to see it cut to 5 back to where it started but we keep looking for short term solutions at the top end when I think the issues are longer term and at the bottom end.

Get the amateur and schools game right and the rest will follow.

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:16 pm  

Personally, I think that we should scrap quotas altogether. Allow teams to sign however many overseas players as they like. However, we keep the salary cap but make some amendments to it. Such as a player who comes through that clubs ranks from junior to first grade has an increasing percentage of his wage not count against the cap up to a max of say 50% depending on length of service and number of games played

This will help clubs in several ways

1: With the influx of ovearsenals talent will help the lower end teams be competitive and that will help them attract crowds and sponsors = more money in the game
2: It will help clubs hang on to their juniors as they can pay them comparable wages without having to lose out in other areas of the squad and having the number of games played have an affect on the wage discount means clubs can't horde juniors
Also not allowing discount to follow a player over the age of 23 will again prevent hording by bigger clubs and should help prevent inflated wages for British players who aren't up to the standards but get a contract simply because a club needs x number of british players on its books

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:42 pm  

roofaldo2 wrote:

Personally, I think that we should scrap quotas altogether. Allow teams to sign however many overseas players as they like. However, we keep the salary cap but make some amendments to it. Such as a player who comes through that clubs ranks from junior to first grade has an increasing percentage of his wage not count against the cap up to a max of say 50% depending on length of service and number of games played

This will help clubs in several ways

1: With the influx of ovearsenals talent will help the lower end teams be competitive and that will help them attract crowds and sponsors = more money in the game
2: It will help clubs hang on to their juniors as they can pay them comparable wages without having to lose out in other areas of the squad and having the number of games played have an affect on the wage discount means clubs can't horde juniors
Also not allowing discount to follow a player over the age of 23 will again prevent hording by bigger clubs and should help prevent inflated wages for British players who aren't up to the standards but get a contract simply because a club needs x number of british players on its books

I'd agree with all that. Could maybe introduce some kind of similar incentive to clubs to sign French players too. Maybe where Catalans get first refusal on any French player and then a salary cap incentive can come into play for any English SL club.

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:02 pm  

Sort the game out at the bottom first. No point in reducing the quota if there are hardly any kids playing it at grassroots.

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:58 pm  

Willzay wrote:

Sort the game out at the bottom first. No point in reducing the quota if there are hardly any kids playing it at grassroots.

Absolutely. Problem is, there are so many amateur clubs struggling, folding and very good people walking away from the game (all pretty much doing it for free by the way) because there is little being invested into the game at the bottom. It really needs to be nurtured far more than it is being at the minute imo.

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:45 pm  

Biff Tannen wrote:

Absolutely. Problem is, there are so many amateur clubs struggling, folding and very good people walking away from the game (all pretty much doing it for free by the way) because there is little being invested into the game at the bottom. It really needs to be nurtured far more than it is being at the minute imo.

Irony alert !!!!!!!!!

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:43 pm  

DGM wrote:

I also think the non-fed number is too high.

Whilst 7 is only a quarter of a 28-man squad, the likelihood is that all of the non-fed players will be rin the match day 17 if fit, so it's more like 40%.

I'd like to see it reduced to 5.


Regarding player pool / academies. We don't have enough youngsters playing the game for enough top quality to come through. At the moment, only 9 SL sides have their own academy, Hull share with Hull KR, Salford & Leigh are setting up their own. London have one. Bradford do/did(?). Then there's regional ones (Midlands, Cumbria and North-East).

We need more players playing the game, and over a bigger geographical footprint. Regional academies should be set up in Wales & Scotland, South-West (Bristol/Gloucester), and another in London, with clear link ups/pathways to SL clubs should a player be good enough.

We also need a proper U23's comp so that players are not discarded at 19 and the late developers can continue to do so.

Hull
Leigh
Wigan
Warrington
Widnes
Cas
Wakefield
Saints
Leeds
Hudds
Catalan

That's off the top of my head, but theoretically all SL clubs have an Academy except for Salford.

Re: Time for a Quota Cut ? : Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:08 pm  

vastman wrote:

Hull
Leigh
Wigan
Warrington
Widnes
Cas
Wakefield
Saints
Leeds
Hudds
Catalan

That's off the top of my head, but theoretically all SL clubs have an Academy except for Salford.

I don't think Leigh have an academy and Hull have a joint city academy